Can't Invert Live Filter Layer

[GDPR-354025]

Several non-Affinity videos on YouTube discuss how to increase resolution/sharpness/clarity. The High Pass Live Filter is applied to the entire image. The tutorial videos instruct users to use "Control" + "I," or the drop-down menu choice "Invert Layer," in order to use the Paintbrush to restrict selections.

I have tried this numerous times and am unable to Invert the Layer, either by using keyboard or menu commands. No "black mask" (the inverted layer) appears when I Invert the Layer. Nothing at all happens. I've attempted this manipulation several times without success, and am certain I have followed the (verbatim) instructions on these videos. My software seems updated.

Any responses would be appreciated. Thank you.

[lepr]

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[GDPR-354025]

Thank you for the response. Unfortunately, I've re-read your first paragraph three times and do not understand it. If you're asking if activity of any sort is possible or impossible despite the quirk with the thumbnail, the answer is Apparently Impossible. I ignored the thumbnail's failure to become black and kept calm and carried on by applying the Paintbrush on the Live Filter layer, but it's the Emperor's New Clothes. If some change has taken place, without any visible artifact or traceable History--which the thumbnail mask would "prove"--I can't see it. Even if there were a History entry, if I can't see it, I don't know of what use the "new clothes" in History would be.

[EDIT: My version number is 1.6.5.123. Can/Should I downgrade to an earlier version? Thank you.]

[walt.farrell]

I suspect you're simply not doing something correctly, though I'm not sure what that could be. It seems to work just fine for me and the process seems simple enough that I don't see where it could go wrong.

It would help if you would supply some screenshots showing the image and Layers Panel and the History panel before/after applying the Live Filter, and then after inverting.

Also, if you can make screen recordings having one of those might help.

[GDPR-354025]

Oh, dear. Have a good day, sir.

[lepr]

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[GDPR-354025]

Je n'ai rien compris   I just opened version 1.6.135 on a different laptop and tried to get the thumbnail to appear. But the Affinity app reached out of the screen--reached out!--and gave me at tune up in a most unseemly fashion, and-- Actually, it was just ditto the laptop with 1.6.123. 

I honestly don't understand "mask-nested object" and "layering structure of the document." Thank you for the response, though. Here is one unintentionally comic #1 video dealing with this High Pass/Invert Layer problem. Here is an infinitely better: #2 .

Thanks again!  

[Alfred]

On 4/28/2019 at 12:40 PM, Guest-354025 said:

I just opened version 1.6.135 on a different laptop and tried to get the thumbnail to appear. But the Affinity app reached out of the screen--reached out!--and gave me at tune up in a most unseemly fashion, and-- Actually, it was just ditto the laptop with 1.6.123.

Just as an FYI, there is no functional difference between build 123 and build 135.

 

[GDPR-354025]

@Alfred

So would it help, hurt, or make no difference if I downgraded to 1.5.1? Thanks!

[Alfred]

On 4/28/2019 at 1:00 PM, Guest-354025 said:

@Alfred

So would it help, hurt, or make no difference if I downgraded to 1.5.1? Thanks!

I don’t think you can downgrade, but even if you could I don’t see how it would help.

[GDPR-354025]

What's a cowboy wanting to reach the High Pass to do, then, pardner? Apply a Mask Layer to the (Merged?) Layer (Background--or Duplicate Background--+ High Pass)? This is a serious question because I have yet to understand Masks after many many years and reached partial enlightenment only yesterday thanks to video #2 referenced above. I did not know that every Layer in Affinity comes with a Mask, frankly don't understand why every Layer would come with one, but am not only extremely grateful to finally have a slight understanding, but eager to put it into effect. And I do have Easter pictures I promised friends I would (ha) perfect. 

Thank you.

 

[walt.farrell]

On 4/28/2019 at 12:30 PM, >|< said:

Do the Affinity apps for Windows not have the problem of thumbnails of mask-nested objects not updating until a change is made to the layering structure of the document?

Yes, they seem to have that problem on Windows, too, but that's minor in my opinion.

Inverting the High Pass Live Filter has an obvious, immediate effect on the image, so I don't need to see the Live Filter thumbnail change to know that I've done something. And, also, the History panel updates to show an inversion was done, which @Guest-354025 also seems to have a problem with.

[lepr]

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[GDPR-354025]

24 minutes ago, >|< said:

Yes, but a failure to update a thumbnail could cause confusion for an inexperienced user trying to follow old video tutorials that do not exhibit a bug that is now in the apps.

Well, I'll be. So you and Mr. Farrell are saying that 1) you have to DO something for the Mask to appear? OR 2) I have been watching videos no longer applicable to current Affinity... stuff? 

Because when I have tried to use the dropdown menu to Invert the High Pass Live Filter, there is no "obvious, immediate effect on the image." There is nothing. 

So if someone would Explain Like I'm 5 how to Invert the High Pass Filter Layer, I would be very grateful. I am new to this country.

[carl123]

On 4/28/2019 at 2:07 PM, Guest-354025 said:

So if someone would Explain Like I'm 5 how to Invert the High Pass Filter Layer

Select just the High Pass layer in the layers panel then from the menus select Layer > Invert

I don't have a 5 year old around but just tested on a 4 year old and they could do it.

If that does not work for you then as previouly suggested upload some screenshots or a screen recording

PS Make sure you are using the Live High Pass Filter not the one from the Filters menu

[GDPR-354025]

Just now, carl123 said:

Select just the High Pass layer in the layers panel then from the menus select Layer > Invert

I don't have a 5 year old around but just tested on a 4 year old and they could do it.

If that does not work for you then as previouly suggested upload some screenshots or a screen recording

PS Make sure you are using the Live High Pass Filter not the one from the Filters menu

If I were in the habit of swearing to You Know Who, I would swear to You Know Who that what you describe is exactly what I've done. I don't want to be Debbie Downer here, but last autumn, I spent an entire day making and uploading a series of 32 screenshots to Support asking for help with Why Does My Inpainting Brush Just... Stop? Sincere wishes for continued graciousness, but I will not do that again, because I never received an acknowledgement. What is of importance is that I have done exactly as you describe, and the thumbnail does not turn black, and, for that reason, my Paintbrush doesn't even show up (in regard to the variable, movable circle that appears whenever Paintbrush is chosen). Additionally, there is NOTHING in the History Tab to show that I have chosen to Invert the Layer.

I've given up so often on the Forums and will thank everyone who tried to help. I don't know if I have faulty software, or what. 

Just so I won't feel so bad-- Explain Like I'm 5 is a large community on Reddit for us Great Technological Unwashed. 

Thank you all again. I will figure out some way of editing the photos.

 

[lepr]

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[GDPR-354025]

4 hours ago, >|< said:

 A bug that was introduced to the apps, after the videos were made, affects the updating of an object's thumbnail in the Layer panel in the case of a mask-nested object. That bug does not affect the behaviour of an object in any other way.

I’m seeing this on Sunday afternoon. In regard to the section of your quote that I bolded: How can you see, then, what areas you have or haven’t High Passed? 

I got stuff working on 1.6.5.135, meaning Invert Layer and Paintbrush. But it’s like shooting darts blindfolded. 

I will not see any answer you or anyone else may be kind enough to give until tomorrow, but I really would like to know how you fellers accomplish this particular operation if you can’t see it. 

I owe you all Thanks for making me stick with it, but Affinity really should fix that bug. Otherwise there’ll be more teeming hordes storming the forums with the same High Pass goal.  

[walt.farrell]

On 4/28/2019 at 8:12 PM, Guest-354025 said:

but I really would like to know how you fellers accomplish this particular operation if you can’t see it. 

It's only the Layer Panel thumbnail where we can't see what's happening. The effect is perfectly visible on the image itself. That's partly why we've said it would help if you provided some screenshots or a recording.

I can't do a recording, but here are some screenshots:

1. Part of the original image (image from another forum user, if I remember correctly), and the Layers panel:

2. With the High Pass Live Filter added:

3. With the Background layer expanded:

4. With the layer inverted (Layer > Invert) or Ctrl+I:

I will admit that I do not understand how to use the High Pass Filter (or Live Filter).

However, with the "gray" version (original, before inversion) I can paint with a white brush and reveal the image behind the gray:

Or, with the inverted version, I can paint with white and conceal the image:

In this latter case, if I then adjust the Live Filter settings they apply only to the part of the image that is gray:

 

 

[lepr]

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[GDPR-354025]

1 minute ago, walt.farrell said:

It's only the Layer Panel thumbnail where we can't see what's happening. The effect is perfectly visible on the image itself. That's partly why we've said it would help if you provided some screenshots or a recording.

I can't do a recording, but here are some screenshots:

1. Part of the original image (image from another forum user, if I remember correctly), and the Layers panel:

2. With the High Pass Live Filter added:

3. With the Background layer expanded:

4. With the layer inverted (Layer > Invert) or Ctrl+I:

I will admit that I do not understand how to use the High Pass Filter (or Live Filter).

However, with the "gray" version (original, before inversion) I can paint with a white brush and reveal the image behind the gray...

 

Images removed. Oh, thank you so much for this incredible tutorial. But the High Pass interface I have on Affinity is nothing—and I do mean nothing —like what you demonstrate here. Yours looks more like the Serif interfaces I was used to.

 I will have to see if an update is in order. In fact, even the Tabs are different. 

Greatly appreciated. 

[Alfred]

On 4/28/2019 at 8:42 PM, Guest-354025 said:

But the High Pass interface I have on Affinity is nothing—and I do mean nothing —like what you demonstrate here. Yours looks more like the Serif interfaces I was used to.

Are you using the (default) dark UI style? You can change it by choosing ‘Edit > Preferences... > User Interface’ and clicking on the ‘Light’ UI Style button.

[GDPR-354025]

26 minutes ago, >|< said:

You can display the mask as a greyscale image in the document view by soloing it by alt-clicking the thumbnail. Click any other object in Layers panel to exit solo mode.

 

But (don’t laugh) why would I want to see the High Pass workspace when it’s just like soupy fog? I will experiment and see if this question is stupid to ask you, because my efforts with High Pass have not included alt-clicking anything. 

Both videos I cited this morning make the assumption that the Affinity user can Zoom In to the Nth degree in color, and by zooming in alone—alone—know which areas of the image that need sharpening have in fact been sharpened and which have not. And frankly, the thumbnail is not going to be of any help in this respect, whether black or white, « bugged » or not.

 Thank you again. I’ll continue to work on this.

[GDPR-354025]

4 minutes ago, Alfred said:

Are you using the (default) dark UI style? You can change it by choosing ‘Edit > Preferences... > User Interface’ and clicking on the ‘Light’ UI Style button.

OMG. I did not know this. Thank you!

[Edit: Alfred, it’s a whole new world. My beloved PP look is back.]

[walt.farrell]

On 4/28/2019 at 8:59 PM, Guest-354025 said:

Both videos I cited this morning make the assumption that the Affinity user can Zoom In to the Nth degree in color, and by zooming in alone—alone—know which areas of the image that need to sharpening have in fact been sharpened and which have not.

I don't think you've actually provided links to the videos. I'd like to see them.