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I apply an object style to a text frame. To get rid of it, I disable all layer effects* – all gone except for a grainy gradient, which also appears in the circled color and swatches previews, with HSL sliders in color palette. This structure appears to be resolution-independent: when I zoom in it is more detailed. – Great!

When I now in the color pane move a slider, or switch from HSL to CMYK, both the texture and the gradient disappear, leaving an average color. No gradient, no structure.

– Where is this structure defined?
– Can I access the grainy structure seperately?

* is there a shorter way to remove an object style than unselecting its layer-effects one by one?

63276166_grainystyle-3palettes.jpg.4f3e0340b4f13a98ebe252cca0f7e2b6.jpg    

1283403207_grainystyle-4zoom.thumb.jpg.b8a74fb554042c01b10cffc5ed9289e9.jpg


macOS 10.14.6, Macbook Pro Retina 15" + Eizo 24"

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10 hours ago, thomaso said:

When I now in the color pane move a slider, or switch from HSL to CMYK, both the texture and the gradient disappear, leaving an average color. No gradient, no structure.

– Where is this structure defined?

Hi @thomaso,

I am pretty sure the grainy structure is defined with the gradient tool :)

With the text frame selected switch to the Gradient Tool (G). Click on the gradient fill icon on the toolbar (at the top) and look at the colour stops' colour selection. At the bottom you will see a slider that says 'Noise'. This is where the structure is defined.

d.


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@dominik, unfortunatlely I neither can discover a 'Gradient Tool', nor does any tool become active with shortcut 'G'.
But I found the gradient definition and its according colors set in the context menu bar of the "Fill Tool".

The help-doc does not tell the complete workflow: though it says that 'noise' can be edited in the color panel, I dont know how to save such as swatch.
It seems to me the UI offers as savable swatches only 1-color + noise but no gradient (2 or more colors) or gradient + noise. When I choose to save a gradient then it results in a swatch of 1 plain color only – no gradient, no noise.
 

1) Gradient definition - but not savable?.. >  2) Gradient save option, noise not editable? ............ >> ..........  3) Saved swatch: no gradient, no noise?

1876096672_gradientnoisenosave.jpg.61d2fd23dc16a0defd2cc2148104122a.jpg  >>  757891766_gradientnoisesave-1.jpg.d8f7dbfc82504cdb3cf4f50686ce6c5b.jpg  >>  504391507_gradientnoisesave-2.jpg.97c23f7f9b2dc76c49c3fea098f9c1fa.jpg

 

In Color panel I find a noise-slider – if the palette 'Gradients' is selected.
But there I can't see an ability to define a gradient but single color swatches only (with or without noise).

Furthermore: if I touch, just tap on a color slider (even without moving it) in one of the predefined gradients, then the gradient disappears immediately and completly.

Last but not least, such a disappearing gradient definition as a not-undoable action, which makes things more complicate. And, because the predefined 'Gradients' is an Application Palette, I seem to have lost this gradient totally.

So, since I found the noise-slider but no way to save a gradient w/wo noise, my question converts to:

• If there is a 'Gradient Tool': what icon has it?
• Where do I save a gradient? And where a gradient + noise?
• Isn't it hard to communicate precise when there are 2 color panels, one as Studio panel, the other as sub-panel of the context-menu of the Fill Tool?

 


macOS 10.14.6, Macbook Pro Retina 15" + Eizo 24"

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20 minutes ago, thomaso said:

@dominik, unfortunatlely I neither can discover a 'Gradient Tool', nor does any tool become active with shortcut 'G'.

First off, I have to excuse myself :$   I wrote 'Gradient Tool' because I use to think of it like this. As a matter of fact it is called 'Fill Tool'. But it does have the shortcut 'G'.

 

20 minutes ago, thomaso said:

The help-doc does not tell the complete workflow: though it says that 'noise' can be edited in the color panel, I dont know how to save such as swatch.

The help is not finished yet and is in part the help file from AD. But regarding the colour panels it should be OK because colour works the same in AD and APub.

To save a gradient with noise an object has to be assigned this gradient. Then you click in the Swatches Studio on the small colour palette right of the Pallette Names dropdown. See screenshot:

savegradientwithnoise.thumb.png.7713555280a6fb6059f453d8ee3a171f.png

  1. Define the gradient from the Fill Tool's Colour > Grandient palette.
  2. This gradient is also visible in the Swatches panel. But it cannot be edited from there.
  3. Save the gradient by clicking on the 'Add fill to palette' icon.
  4. The gradient, including noise, is now part of the colour palette (Note: the gradient cannot be edited directly from there).

 

20 minutes ago, thomaso said:

But there I can't see an ability to define a gradient but single color swatches only (with or without noise).

Furthermore: if I touch, just tap on a color slider (even without moving it) in one of the predefined gradients, then the gradient disappears immediately and completly.

It seems you came across some usability inconsistencies (or I am completely wrong):
You can store and recall gradients in the swatches studio but you can't edit them from there.
You have to use the Fill Tool's gradient palette to edit a gradient.
I am not aware of a way to update a swatch from this modified gradient.

Conclusion: it is possible to do what you want to do if you know on where and how. But there seems to be room for improvement :)

Cheers,
d.


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5 hours ago, dominik said:

To save a gradient with noise an object has to be assigned this gradient. Then you click in the Swatches Studio on the small colour palette right of the Pallette Names dropdown. See screenshot:

@dominik, your screenshot and your hint to the little, always grayed-out palette icon to save a gradient swatch did solve my initial topic's problem. Thank you!

Shortcut 'G' possibly shows a difference of preset shortcuts between Windows and Mac OS ? – Definitely in my still factory-default shortcut set the letter G is not used in the tool section and the Fill Tool has no shortcut assigned.Not a problem to me but it shows one for communication in this forum's section which does not separate between different OSs.

Also, your hint that a gradient swatch can not be edited in the swatches panel is helpful to stop mad made thinking. Thanks again! I wonder why you consider possibly to be 'completely wrong' with your idea of usability inconsistencies? Is it the complexity of necessery places and windows which makes you doubt about your experience here?

To me there is at least one real bug in the gradient UI: the definitely wrong gradient Swatch color editor: it has not only no use there but even destroys a saved swatch, even not-undoable, once you touch a slider. I assume there is meant to appear the gradient option window (from the menu bar) instead of the color slider window (which may appear in a later step).

Fill Tool:

5 hours ago, dominik said:

I wrote 'Gradient Tool' because I use to think of it like this.

Is not it just a gradient tool? From a Fill Tool I'd expect to define not gradients only but even other inserts like photos or any graphics. I might not have noticed all Fill Tools skills yet, please let me know! Else I agree with your impression of being a gradient tool only (- which would make sense for shortcut 'G')

By the way, actually, the Fill Tool is not necessary to define gradient colors:
You can achieve the gradient color options also with Move/Black arrow or Text Tool selected, simply by clicking the "Fill:" color box in the menu bar and selecting the Gradient section in the popping up window. So, actually, the Fill Tool defines the position of a gradient (direction, lengths, shape) only.


macOS 10.14.6, Macbook Pro Retina 15" + Eizo 24"

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7 hours ago, thomaso said:

Shortcut 'G' possibly shows a difference of preset shortcuts between Windows and Mac OS ? – Definitely in my still factory-default shortcut set the letter G is not used in the tool section and the Fill Tool has no shortcut assigned.Not a problem to me but it shows one for communication in this forum's section which does not separate between different OSs.

Moin @thomaso,

I just reset my keyboard shortcuts to default and can confirm that the Fill Tool's shortcut is 'G' on Windows. Perhaps a bug report is needed here.

 

7 hours ago, thomaso said:

To me there is at least one real bug in the gradient UI: the definitely wrong gradient Swatch color editor: it has not only no use there but even destroys a saved swatch, even not-undoable, once you touch a slider. I assume there is meant to appear the gradient option window (from the menu bar) instead of the color slider window (which may appear in a later step).

I did not comment on that because I am not completely sure how you create the bug. Can you perhaps give a step by step instruction?
BTW, I am aware that swatch changes are not part of the history. This could be improved.

 

7 hours ago, thomaso said:

Is not it just a gradient tool? From a Fill Tool I'd expect to define not gradients only but even other inserts like photos or any graphics

With the Fill Tool active there is a little dropdown on it's toolbar that gives the following options: None / Solid / Linear / Elliptical / Radial / Conical and Bitmap :)

Cheers,
d.


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15 hours ago, dominik said:

I am not completely sure how you create the bug. 

1. In "Swatches" panel > "Gradients" tap twice on a swatch.
2. Now the color option window pops up. No gradient options there.
3. As soon as you touch any color slider / or color in the color field / or the noise slider : The gradient is not-undoable lost.

So the bug is this two:
1. Wrong color selector window here. It should be the one for gradients options (= the one from "Fill"-box in menu bar).
    (The color selector should appear in a second, later step: if you click the "Color"-box in the gradient options window.)
2. A tap or click on color or noise in this window is not-undoable.

15 hours ago, dominik said:

With the Fill Tool active there is a little dropdown on it's toolbar that gives the following options: None / Solid / Linear / Elliptical / Radial / Conical and Bitmap :)

Wonderfully! Thank you! I haven't seen the "Bitmap" before because I tried the "Fill" box only. There the "Type"-menu is reduced to:

505024446_gradienttooltypewithtextframes.jpg.c460b2525cdc2ca8e1873d08227ce520.jpg

 

But, oh, what happens if I have filled with a bitmap and then open the Fill box:

1323088957_gradienttooltype-2.jpg.f8d8085cfe7f357246470b90443816b6.jpg

The "Type" in menu bar says Bitmap + the Fill-box-icon shows the bitmap – but in the "Type"-menu of the fillbox's gradient section there is a gradient and no bitmap. Though I had bitmap applied but no gradient.

Is at least quite confusing with sort-of paradox informations. Imho is's related to the bug above: the UI seems just not finished, like interrupted for a coffee and then forgotten ...


macOS 10.14.6, Macbook Pro Retina 15" + Eizo 24"

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46 minutes ago, thomaso said:

1. In "Swatches" panel > "Gradients" tap twice on a swatch.
2. Now the color option window pops up. No gradient options there.
3. As soon as you touch any color slider / or color in the color field / or the noise slider : The gradient is not-undoable lost.

I can follow you now and, yes, this is not desirable. But, you can recover the lost gradient:

  1. After you lost the gradient by touching any slider...
  2. ... click off the Swatch Edit window to close it. The palette shows the colour swatch that was formerly the gradient.
  3. Press CTRL+Z as many times as required. At one point the gradient is restored.

 

46 minutes ago, thomaso said:

1. Wrong color selector window here. It should be the one for gradients options (= the one from "Fill"-box in menu bar).

This is a good idea. Perhaps it's worth to post this a seperate feature request. I'm not sure if it is a bug.

 

46 minutes ago, thomaso said:

But, oh, what happens if I have filled with a bitmap and then open the Fill box:

1323088957_gradienttooltype-2.jpg.f8d8085cfe7f357246470b90443816b6.jpg

The "Type" in menu bar says Bitmap + the Fill-box-icon shows the bitmap – but in the "Type"-menu of the fillbox's gradient section there is a gradient and no bitmap. Though I had bitmap applied but no gradient.

This certainly is an inconsistency. I did not notice it because I did not look as closely as you do :)
Either the Fill box should not be available at all (greyed out) or it should introduce a fifth tab with all the bitmap options.

BTW, I followed all your steps in Affinity Designer which works the same as APub in this regard.

d.


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41 minutes ago, dominik said:

I'm not sure if it is a bug.

What else could it be?

Just listen: "You click on a gradient swatch which opens a window where you can do nothing but unknowingly and erroneously delete what you came with, irrevocably.."

Would you name such behavior a feature?

Edit: I had a previous screenshot in mind, sorry. The one you quoted is indeed borderline.


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1 hour ago, dominik said:

I can follow you now and, yes, this is not desirable. But, you can recover the lost gradient:

  1. After you lost the gradient by touching any slider...
  2. ... click off the Swatch Edit window to close it. The palette shows the colour swatch that was formerly the gradient. 
  3. Press CTRL+Z as many times as required. At one point the gradient is restored.

To me step 2. does not bring back my formerly gradient swatch. It shows a plain color only (with noise if applied).

But now I see an even shorter way back to the - unwantedly lost - gradient (which works, ironically, because of another UI inconsistency;):

3. Click on the gray palette icon. Done.
The swatch returns to the formerly gradient, because the circled preview in the up left corner of that window was not updated (= not loosing the gradient) when touching the slider before.


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1 minute ago, thomaso said:

To me step 2. does not bring back my formerly gradient swatch. It shows a plain color only (with noise if applied).

Sorry for explaining not more clearly.

Step 2 does not bring back the gradient. In step 2 I just describe that you have to close the Swatch Edit window and that leaves a swatch that does still not contain the gradient. It is just the very swatch that contained the gradient before.

Step 3 restores the gradient by stepping through a couple of undo steps.

d.


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12 minutes ago, dominik said:

Sorry for explaining not more clearly.

Step 2 does not bring back the gradient. In step 2 I just describe that you have to close the Swatch Edit window and that leaves a swatch that does still not contain the gradient. It is just the very swatch that contained the gradient before.

Step 3 restores the gradient by stepping through a couple of undo steps. 

It's obviously hard to describe. I might have lost you (or you me). For me there is no way to return with undo (comand-z). – Didn't you experience the same here? :

17 hours ago, dominik said:

I am aware that swatch changes are not part of the history.

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/74002-object-style-definition/&tab=comments#comment-386161

However, we discussed this intensive from many perspectives to definitely know now: there is something not, hm, charming – but possibly cute like a bug ;)


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3 minutes ago, thomaso said:

It's obviously hard to describe. I might have lost you (or you me). For me there is no way to return with undo (comand-z).

I do not think that dominik was suggesting that ctrl-Z would restore the swatch contents, but rather that it would restore the gradient to the object.


-- Walt

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3 minutes ago, thomaso said:

It's obviously hard to describe. I might have lost you (or you me). For me there is no way to return with undo (comand-z). – Didn't you experience the same here? :

My bad. What I described in my posts before was done Affinity Designer 1.7 beta. I assumed this one works the same as APub. Just to make sure I tried again in APub and I can confirm it does not work there.

This certainly is something that needs to be sorted out.

d.


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2 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I do not think that dominik was suggesting that ctrl-Z would restore the swatch contents, but rather that it would restore the gradient to the object.

Actually it is possible to restore the swatch content ... in Affinity Designer. I was under the impression that AD and APub work the same. They don't (see above).

I'll have to look into it a little closer and post a report. For now it's too late.

Cheers,
d.


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10 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I do not think that dominik was suggesting that ctrl-Z would restore the swatch contents, but rather that it would restore the gradient to the object.

That might be but it does not solve the issue because I did my recent/last tests without having an object selected, but a gradient swatch only.

@dominik, danke, und gute Nacht! War ein sehr konstruktiv-konzentrierter chat mit dir hier. Ich schreibe morgen einen Käfer-Bericht (falls du nicht schneller bist;)


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