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If for any reason they should soon change their workflow their needs will change accordingly and they'll experience the same issues as some of us do.

That is just a guess based on some unproven assumptions, & they only apply to Photo RAW processing anyway. Besides, if we go by that still relatively small sample of users, about 1/3 of them think no area needs work & most want to see new features in the next release.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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Of course they do, that's the whole point.

If users don't work on huge files or don't develop Raw, it only makes sense to ask for new features considered their current workload doesn't push Affinity.

In other words, if performance and stability are not a problem, why not ask for new features?

On the other hand, whey the tricky combo comes into play, new features can only add more frustration to an already precarious situation.


Andrew
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Win10 x64 AMD Threadripper 1950x, 64GB, 512GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD + 2TB, dual GTX 1080ti
Dual Monitor Dell Ultra HD 4k P2715Q 27-Inch

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You are assuming that everyone using the Windows version of Photo who develops huge RAW files will see the same performance (& stability?) problems you and a few others have reported. But that is just a guess, based on some sketchy data from a statistically tiny sample of users (& we don't even know how many of them are Windows users). It also applies only to Photo, not to Designer.

 

Regardless of that, please consider something I mentioned earlier that seems to have gotten little consideration:

... the reported issues could have multiple causes, including hardware, OS version, & system configuration differences, plus various kinds of software conflicts. It could take a very long time to sort all that out, particularly in the absence of comprehensive data about the affected & unaffected systems.

So it would probably speed things up considerably if Windows users could supply much more of that data -- the CPU/GPU/RAM specs are only a small part of that.

 


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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That's the best guess I have at the moment and the most logical I must add. By the way, I think you should re-consider your statement as it is clearly wrong, I never said *everyone*.

 

I tried to push the survey. It is the first survey I ever done and only later I realized I didn't include the Mac/Win question.

 

Anyway, I seriously believe something like this would be very useful if it would come from Serif unless of course they already have their data then it would be really interesting to hear from them.

 

I don't think different hardware, OS and so forth nowadays can still be considered the main reason, although obviously has its impact. It is not only about the program but the OS as well and Windows is way more stable than in the past, making the applications running on it very stable as well.

 

So, what do you suggest? Do you think that keep adding features on something that is not stable nor fast yet is the right thing to do? And let's not get stuck in the numbers here as neither you or I have them and of course, if you do, please show them. At least I can say I have *some* numbers, which is more than nothing.

 

I don't want to be polemic, I'm sincerely being rational.


Andrew
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Win10 x64 AMD Threadripper 1950x, 64GB, 512GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD + 2TB, dual GTX 1080ti
Dual Monitor Dell Ultra HD 4k P2715Q 27-Inch

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So, what do you suggest? Do you think that keep adding features on something that is not stable nor fast yet is the right thing to do?

I think it doesn't make any sense to assume that because one of the two Affinity apps is not fast or stable for some Windows users, that it would be for all of them, & therefore to make any design decisions based on that would be equally senseless.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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I partially agree with you, I've noticed a considerable amount of bugs and crashes that need to be sorted out. That said there are some crucial features missing that prevent me from using these apps full time. However I am hopeful some of these will be added in a near future, without compromising stability and bug hunting, since they're reasonably simple and some are already half-implemented anyway.

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Application development on a Windows OS is, from my experience, inherently less reliable. With exception of gaming software of which I have no knowledge almost all of the applications that I have used that run on Apple OS and Widows OS have been almost without exception more stable on the Apple platform. The consequence of this for me is that although the Windows machine gave the impression of cutting edge speed the regular failure to be reliable and the need for more maintenance input makes them, in reality, slower.

 

My longtime collaborator in photography was a diehard Windows man and our differences on the subject had to be well buried (by mutual consent) to allow for a good and fun working partnership. His frustrations when using his laptop at the same desk as I with mine were palpable. With both of us using Photoshop CS4 on our respective, similarly powered machines his day was markedly more frustrating than mine despite his admitted higher skill factor and experience with the product.

 

I suppose what I am trying to illustrate is not so much that one OS was better than another but that one has to be all things to all machines while the other can be tuned more finely to the limited hardware it has to operate in. I am sorry if this is 'teaching granny to suck eggs' but it is fundamental to the stability/speed question.

 

Working with base NEF file of 75MB my finished tiffs. can be in excess of 1.5Gb. and so far the MBP (2013) that I am now using simply glides along. My conclusion is that for me anyway, AP is as stable as anything I have ever used before including Pixelmator, C1 and CS6..

 

The one part of AP that has caused me concern is the Macro and any bulk work I get lumbered with by my wife  :angry: . This type of job is, almost by definition, a real drain on the hardware. Allowing one process to run while trying to get on with my own projects always causes me to grind my teeth a little. I have to remind myself of days when my Windows machine would die after a couple of minutes of this so that I can appreciate the reliable efforts of the Apple/Affinity partnership that it is easy sometimes to pick holes in if historical comparisons are forgotten.

 

There will always be things that need fixing and things to make faster but it is good to reflect on what is working well now so as not to be continually down on the tools we use to make our living (past tense in my case).

 

 Sorry if this is a bit off topic - just started me thinking :huh:.

 

Regards    Sharkey


MacPro (late 2013), 24Gb Ram, D300GPU, Eizo 24",1TB Samsung 850 Archive, 2x2Tb Time Machine,X-t2 plus 50-140mm & 18-55mm. AP, FRV & RawFile Converter (Silkypix).

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sometimes its kinda strange in here ...

 

battle of words and such where no one is eighter completely wrong or right. and sometimes i have a strange kind of feeling that too many seem to be forced to defend affinity or serif wheres no need to. and the discussions over stability towards mac or windows are quite useless anyway.

 

the thing is (just my two cents): if serif would claim to be only for the 'average' users or just for the fun stuff side and not charging anyone for anything, alright. but they dont. and even more as the software is claimed to be for professional use also - what would be any better for serif than those who uses this every day (if not for work), reporting issues and such? its kinda development stage for free and even getting paid themselves... ;)

 

so yes - there are chrashes. and yes there are demands for new features. development has to be towards more reliability and enhancement of existing features as well as new features. hard job. but i hope they will manage it - last update already lead to much faster startup times e.g. - great.

 

so dont damn those who want more features, nor those who are reporting issues or want more stability. btw. i want both :lol:

so hopefully serif listens to all, sort things out and go for wise decisons.

 

 

at the end (supposing) we all want the same: a good reason to ditch off the old bulls with confidence!

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I just want to give my opinion without wanting to argue:
I am a non-professional user of Designer and only Designer.
I am on Windows 10 and my version (1.5.2.58) works perfectly without bug of any kind. It is perfectly stable, without any crash, like the previous version for that matter.

So the only thing I expect now, unlike some of the forum participants, is the addition of the tools that are missing and that I will not list here, everyone knows about them.
I do not have the same imperatives as the professionals whose frustration I understand.

So I take my trouble patiently and I wait for future updates while knowing that a great work has already been done and that there is still much to do to satisfy everyone, professional or not.

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sometimes its kinda strange in here ...

 

battle of words and such where no one is eighter completely wrong or right. and sometimes i have a strange kind of feeling that too many seem to be forced to defend affinity or serif wheres no need to. and the discussions over stability towards mac or windows are quite useless anyway.

 

the thing is (just my two cents): if serif would claim to be only for the 'average' users or just for the fun stuff side and not charging anyone for anything, alright. but they dont. and even more as the software is claimed to be for professional use also - what would be any better for serif than those who uses this every day (if not for work), reporting issues and such? its kinda development stage for free and even getting paid themselves... ;)

 

so yes - there are chrashes. and yes there are demands for new features. development has to be towards more reliability and enhancement of existing features as well as new features. hard job. but i hope they will manage it - last update already lead to much faster startup times e.g. - great.

 

so dont damn those who want more features, nor those who are reporting issues or want more stability. btw. i want both :lol:

so hopefully serif listens to all, sort things out and go for wise decisons.

 

 

at the end (supposing) we all want the same: a good reason to ditch off the old bulls with confidence!

 

Apologies if my post is deemed useless.  :( 

 

Merely an observation and in no way defensive of any software producer; indeed if Windows is now absolutely faultless then I am glad and congratulate all concerned.

 

Ah Well.

 

By the way. What does "a good reason to ditch off the old bulls with confidence" mean?

 

Regards    Sharkey 


MacPro (late 2013), 24Gb Ram, D300GPU, Eizo 24",1TB Samsung 850 Archive, 2x2Tb Time Machine,X-t2 plus 50-140mm & 18-55mm. AP, FRV & RawFile Converter (Silkypix).

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I can expand a bit more on the central theme of this topic, I think there's nothing wrong in asking for features, just ask for reasonable stuff. Requesting reasonable features keeps development in focus and increases the chances of it actually being implemented. Below are two examples.

 

Reasonable request: Artboards in Affinity Photo, we can already trick the software into having artboards in a number of ways, so the feature already exists. I'd therefor ask Serif to simply add a button saying "Insert Artboard", just so it's simpler to do it.

 

Unreasonable request: Asking for the immediate release of a full featured, Lightroom killer, DAM software out of thin air...

 

So, nothing wrong with asking, just keep it real please. Thanks!

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Reasonable request: Artboards in Affinity Photo, we can already trick the software into having artboards in a number of ways, so the feature already exists. I'd therefor ask Serif to simply add a button saying "Insert Artboard", just so it's simpler to do it.

Slightly off topic but there is nothing 'tricky' about using artboards in Photo. They have to be created in Designer but because both apps share the same file format both apps have to support them. The consequences of this are something I mentioned many posts ago: both versions of both apps must support everything in the native Affinity file format or there will be significant interoperability issues for anyone using more than one of them.

 

We have already been through this once. When AD for Mac was updated to include artboards, the file format was changed to support them (among other things), but at that time AP for Mac had not yet been updated, so it could not open AD files that used the new file format. This also applied to the Windows beta because by then it was also using the new file format. The result was for a time Mac users could not open anything in the retail version of Photo that had been saved in AD on either platform.

 

Anyway, the point is because of this there is no way to treat the development of the Mac & Windows versions (or of the two apps) separately without creating a lot of problems for users. That in turn makes the proposal to freeze feature development on the Windows side while allowing it to continue on the Mac side impractical.

 

As long as I am revisiting things already mentioned, please consider what has been said about the importance of furnishing detailed info from the Windows users experiencing crashes & performance issues. Just as on the Mac side, there are many different possible causes of these issues, but because there are considerably more hardware, system, & installed software configurations than on the Mac side, there is no way Affinity can test all of the Windows ones. So it is in the best interests of any Windows users seeing these issues to furnish this kind of info --otherwise, the chances that they can reproduce them on their test machines are considerably lower.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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Affinity Photo is not a mature application. That's all there's to it.

 

If you need production-ready features, stability, reliability and a frustration-free experience, just pay $120/year to Adobe for the Lightroom/Photoshop combo. I do - because nothing is better or cheaper, to be honest.

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I've been very busy in the past few days, I'll try to catch-up with the replies.
 
R C-R
Actually, it does for one simple reason: the few of us who are reporting this issues work with raw files or big files, those who don't complain about the same issues are most likely people who don't deal with the same workload.
Plus, although it's a super tiny survey, still it is something that can be used to gather some info. Like I said, my guess is based on numbers (and, let's not forget, also the posts on this very forum). Little numbers I know, but more than nothing. Stating the opposite is based on...?
 
Last but not least: is your best suggestion to keep things as is?
If so, I want to ask you this: what if (and bear with me for a moment), I am right and the workload is one of the main (if not the main) causes of performance and lag and we keep adding new features? Do you think that will give any benefit in the long term? It's like asking for the best tires on the market, modern onboard computers, and so on to run the circuit when the engine is having a hard trying to keep up…
 
As far PC & MAC parallel development, it is something Serif knew had to deal with. In fact, not everything is exactly matched on both OS (acquiring image for instance).
 
 
LCamachoDesign
I'd be interested to know what crucial features are you referring to.
 
 
Sharkey

 

Application development on a Windows OS is, from my experience, inherently less reliable. With exception of gaming software of which I have no knowledge almost all of the applications that I have used that run on Apple OS and Widows OS have been almost without exception more stable on the Apple platform.

 
I think your post is sincere and I understand your point. That said, I've experienced exactly the opposite, and not by colleagues who worked on the other platform, but by myself. I worked with Mac for 10 years and I experienced more issues and bugs on the software I used (Adobe and 3d) than on Windows. Of course, this is not a Mac vs PC thing, like I said I used both (and I still do).
 
 
dasigna

 

 

so dont damn those who want more features, nor those who are reporting issues or want more stability. btw. i want both

 

So you think there's no need for a priority on what comes first? That doesn't sound very productive to me. Any development, being design or application, needs to go through a list of stages and priorities, otherwise is a mess and things can get nasty pretty quickly. Never worked in a place where this wasn't the common ground to base all the work on.
 
 
reglico

 

I am on Windows 10 and my version (1.5.2.58) works perfectly without bug of any kind. It is perfectly stable, without any crash, like the previous version for that matter.

 

That doesn't help, reglico.
What are your machine specs? What type of work do you do with Affinity? How big are the files you usually work with? Do you develop Raw? How many layers your documents can have?
 
 
LCamachoDesign

 

I can expand a bit more on the central theme of this topic, I think there's nothing wrong in asking for features, just ask for reasonable stuff.[..]

Unreasonable request: Asking for the immediate release of a full featured, Lightroom killer, DAM software out of thin air...
 
Now, that is using some logic!
I mean, I read people asking for animation, Premiere and AE alternatives and whatnot!
 
 
Irvin

 

Affinity Photo is not a mature application. That's all there's to it.

 
Irvin, what's the purpose of your statement? We all know Affinity Photo and Designer are still young, we are in fact discussing the development here. It seems you didn't pay attention to the topic at all.

Andrew
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Win10 x64 AMD Threadripper 1950x, 64GB, 512GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD + 2TB, dual GTX 1080ti
Dual Monitor Dell Ultra HD 4k P2715Q 27-Inch

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R C-R

Actually, it does for one simple reason: the few of us who are reporting this issues work with raw files or big files, those who don't complain about the same issues are most likely people who don't deal with the same workload.
Plus, although it's a super tiny survey, still it is something that can be used to gather some info. Like I said, my guess is based on numbers (and, let's not forget, also the posts on this very forum). Little numbers I know, but more than nothing. Stating the opposite is based on...?

Please focus on the "most likely" part for a moment. No matter how you try to justify it, it is still just a guess. one based by your own admission on a "super tiny" survey of users. Yes, it is "more than nothing," but how much more is unknown.

 

What I am stating is not the opposite of anything. It is simply that it is very, very far from enough to draw the kind of conclusions from it that you are trying to do. Consider:

 

1. RAW files apply only to Photo, not to Designer. It has already been explained why this is significant. Please don't ignore that.

2. Your survey does not distinguish between Mac & Windows users. It has already been explained why this is significant. Please don't ignore that either.

3. The survey is not only tiny, it is statistically biased: only users that participate in these forums are represented, & only a fraction of them have responded. It is much more likely that users having some kind of issues will participate in these forums than those who have none. This is sometimes known as the "hospital effect" -- if you are trying to determine the general health of a population but only go to hospitals to gather data about that, you would conclude erroneously that most people are quite ill.

4. There are multiple factors that can & do affect stability & performance. To assume that only those related to Photo itself are causing all of them is totally unjustified, particularly based on the very minimal data we have to work with derived from a tiny, statistically biased user report survey.

5. There will always be debates about which platform is inherently more stable, & almost all of them are based on anecdotal evidence, which is inherently unreliable.

6. Different features are critical for different workflows. From a marketing standpoint, Affinity/Serif cannot reasonably be expected to ignore that. They can't simply stop development of new, frequently requested features without alienating existing & potential new users.

7. There is no way for end users to know if adding any particular new feature or improving an existing one will have any impact on the stability or performance of the apps, or what that might be if it does. It might be that rewriting a part of the code to support something new or improved actually improves one, the other, or even both. It could also do the opposite, or nothing at all. The only people that can determine this are the developers themselves.

 

So basically, what I am saying is let the developers decide how best to do their job. Nobody else is in a position to do that better.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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Please focus on the "most likely" part for a moment. No matter how you try to justify it, it is still just a guess. one based by your own admission on a "super tiny" survey of users. Yes, it is "more than nothing," but how much more is unknown.

 

What I am stating is not the opposite of anything. It is simply that it is very, very far from enough to draw the kind of conclusions from it that you are trying to do. Consider:

 

1. RAW files apply only to Photo, not to Designer. It has already been explained why this is significant. Please don't ignore that.

2. Your survey does not distinguish between Mac & Windows users. It has already been explained why this is significant. Please don't ignore that either.

3. The survey is not only tiny, it is statistically biased: only users that participate in these forums are represented, & only a fraction of them have responded. It is much more likely that users having some kind of issues will participate in these forums than those who have none. This is sometimes known as the "hospital effect" -- if you are trying to determine the general health of a population but only go to hospitals to gather data about that, you would conclude erroneously that most people are quite ill.

4. There are multiple factors that can & do affect stability & performance. To assume that only those related to Photo itself are causing all of them is totally unjustified, particularly based on the very minimal data we have to work with derived from a tiny, statistically biased user report survey.

5. There will always be debates about which platform is inherently more stable, & almost all of them are based on anecdotal evidence, which is inherently unreliable.

6. Different features are critical for different workflows. From a marketing standpoint, Affinity/Serif cannot reasonably be expected to ignore that. They can't simply stop development of new, frequently requested features without alienating existing & potential new users.

7. There is no way for end users to know if adding any particular new feature or improving an existing one will have any impact on the stability or performance of the apps, or what that might be if it does. It might be that rewriting a part of the code to support something new or improved actually improves one, the other, or even both. It could also do the opposite, or nothing at all. The only people that can determine this are the developers themselves.

 

So basically, what I am saying is let the developers decide how best to do their job. Nobody else is in a position to do that better.

 

R C-R,

 

It seems you are not reading my posts.

Why you are highlighting the difference between Photo & Designer when it comes to RAW, it is something I don't understand. I never said RAW affects Designer's performance. What I said is "after hours spent working (especially with Photo)", but no, no RAW & Designer side effects whatsoever.

 

About your point #2: I already said what happened there, I'm not ignoring it. Please, re-read my previous post if is not clear.

 

Point # 3: you keep saying that this is all only partial and yet, your statement ends up being partial as well. How can you say that only users with similar problems will participate the forums? There are people who don't have time, people who simply don't take part to forums, there might be people who simply deal with it as Affinity is not their main app. I mean, there are tons of other situations, but from your standpoint " It is much more likely that users having some kind of issues will participate in these forums than those who have none". That is only a portion of those users.

 

# 4: again, yours are assumptions, mine are gathered from numbers, you can't deny that. Let's do a better survey and then we can all talk about this again but as of right now, it is pointless stating what is the cause only by assumptions.

 

As for your last consideration, of course, only the developers are in the position to proceed with what they think is the priority.

Again, your last statement makes me think that you didn't read my post carefully, in fact, I never directed my request to them but to the users on this forum and them only (one reason more to reconsider your point # 3).


Andrew
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Win10 x64 AMD Threadripper 1950x, 64GB, 512GB M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD + 2TB, dual GTX 1080ti
Dual Monitor Dell Ultra HD 4k P2715Q 27-Inch

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LCamachoDesign

I'd be interested to know what crucial features are you referring to.

 

Hi!

 

For Affinity Photo it seems like the only (reasonable) things I'm missing are Linked Files (the bare functionality is already present, needs to be expanded) and Live Mesh Wrap Filter (there's already a Live Perspective Filter, which is similar so the Mesh Wrap is probably within reach).

 

For Affinity Designer... I do packaging design so the list is considerably longer, you'll need to look at my post history and see what I've been requesting.

 

Thanks!

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reglico

 

That doesn't help, reglico.
What are your machine specs? What type of work do you do with Affinity? How big are the files you usually work with? Do you develop Raw? How many layers your documents can have?
 

Verysame, my goal was just to bring the testimony of a Designer user (and only Designer). I have already said that I did not pronounce myself about Photo since I do not use it.

 

I am not a professional and I have a small configuration under Windows 10 with 4 gO of RAM only.

 

I also used Inkscape which is always installed, but that I no longer use because as soon as a drawing requires too many calculations, my machine freeze during a simple zoom or during a travel and work under these conditions (even for a non-professional) is impossible. On the other hand with Designer I do not have this kind of problem.

 

Again it is only a testimony and nothing more and if you consider that I am not technical enough I am sorry but it is so.

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Point # 3: you keep saying that this is all only partial and yet, your statement ends up being partial as well. How can you say that only users with similar problems will participate the forums?

Please read more carefully. I am not saying only users with similar problems will participate, just that there is a statistical bias (specifically a selection bias) that must be considered. This is true for any forum like this one -- it is not a random sampling representative of the entire user base.

 

Regarding the differences between Photo & Designer, as has already been discussed in some detail, both must support the same features, even if they do not offer a way to edit all of them. This is a consequence of the shared Affinity file format & why a document created in one of the apps can be opened & edited in the other without problems. Thus, it is not realistic to consider the development of the features of one as if they were independent of the other. The same is true for the Mac & Windows versions.


Affinity Photo 1.7.3, Affinity Designer 1.7.3, Affinity Publisher 1.7.3; macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 1.7.3.155 & Affinity Designer 1.7.3.1 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.1.2

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