Fill layers and setting their color in Photo

[NotMyFault]

Hi,

when you add a fill layer you have multiple options to set their color.

Unfortunately it get extremely confusing very soon:

1. while hand tool, move tool or some others are active, you can use color panel or swatches to set color
2. you can use flood fill, but when you choose a color n color panel luminosity  impacts both color luminosity and alpha
3. while gradient tool is active, you can set a gradient. It seems like an overlay. Hue and saturation impact color, but luminosity Impacts both alpha and luminosity 
4. stroke from gradient has no effect
5. when using a brush based tool, colors impact inherent mask only

to summarize, it is totally confusing (except plain color panel) and effectively unusable.

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by NotMyFault
Typos

[Dan C]

Thanks for your report @NotMyFault!

20 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

• you can use flood fill, but when you choose a color n color panel luminosity  impacts both color luminosity and alpha

With the Flood Fill tool active, you can still select the Fill Layer in the Layers Studio, then use the Colour Studio to set the Colour of the Fill Layer, as expected.
sing a Pixel based tool, such as the Flood Fill tool directly (by tapping on the canvas) will apply the Pixel Flood Fill as a Mask to the Fill Layer, rather than changing the Fill itself. This is expected behaviour currently.

20 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

• while gradient tool is active, you can set a gradient. It seems like an overlay. Hue and saturation impact color, but luminosity Impacts both alpha and luminosity 

I'm either misunderstanding your report, or not seeing this behaviour currently. Gradients can be applied to Fill Layers either using the Gradient Tool, or the Context Toolbar options with the Fill Layer selected. These are applied as a fill to the Fill Layer, not as a mask.
In my testing, the colour or luminance I set for the Gradient 'stop' in a Fill Layer does not change the Alpha or Fill Alpha Channel for the layer.

20 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

• stroke from gradient has no effect

I would not expect the Gradient Tool Stroke setting to be shown here - for me on iPad when using the Stroke setting of the Gradient Tool on the Fill Layer, it's applied to the Alpha as a mask only - on Desktop the Gradient types cannot be selected for Stroke with the Fill Layer active, though there are issues I've found here on both platforms, so I'm logging these with our developers now.

20 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

• when using a brush based tool, colors impact inherent mask only

As above, this is expected behaviour when using Pixel based tools on a Fill Layer.

20 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

to summarize, it is totally confusing (except plain color panel) and effectively unusable.

As the Helpfile page suggests, filling the Fill Layer using the Colour Studio, or the Gradient Tool is the expected use case for this tool - though the behaviour of Pixel based tools on this layer could perhaps be clearer.

[NotMyFault]

5 hours ago, Dan C said:

With the Flood Fill tool active, you can still select the Fill Layer in the Layers Studio, then use the Colour Studio to set the Colour of the Fill Layer, as expected.

Please see video. The flood fill tool changes both color and alpha value, depending on luminosity of color.

[Dan C]

Thanks for providing that for me!

When you first 'tap' on the Fill Layer, using the Flood Fill Tool, this will apply the Pixel Flood Fill as a Mask to the Fill Layer - as mentioned above.

You then use the Luminance Slider in the Colour Studio - as the Fill Layer is still selected in the Layers Studio, you're editing the Fill of this Fill Layer - hence increasing the Luminance to 100% changes the fill of the Fill Layer to White.

After, you then 'tap' on the Canvas with the Flood Fill Tool, now set to the White colour. This resets the Alpha in the mask layer that you applied previously, essentially meaning the mask is no longer applied to the Fill Layer.

You then reduce the Luminance value, this again is affecting the Luminance of the Fill Layer fill, which reintroduces colour back into the fill.

Finally, you then 'tap' on the Canvas using the Flood Fill Tool with a colour applied again, re-adding the mask over the Fill Layer.

This is all working as our developers intend it from your recording. I hope this clears things up

[NotMyFault]

Thanks Dan. If this works as intended, I must assume the developers intended to confuse users. Well done 😂

Not fully convinced.

(1) I tried to continue editing the file, and click the red swatch while the fill tool is active.

Problem 1.1 the swatch affects both the fill color (but only visible in layer thumbnail - this is a very frequent rendering bug on its own), and 1.2 the flood fill tool (setting the mask to reduced alpha).

I don’t think this could be intentional. The fill color should only affect one of them, but never both.

 

[NotMyFault]

2. if you have the state of fill layer with e.g. 50% alpha, and try to get it to 100% again by flood fill tool, and swatches.

The only option is to use white (all others will not achieve 100%), but again the fill color itself is overwritten.

when switching to e.g. move tool, the fill color will not impact inherent mask (alpha stays at 50).

 

To summerize: 

while the fill tool is active, the color panel should only impact the mask, but never impact the fill color. It  is a bug that both fill color and inherent mask get impacted (maybe a design bug).

[Dan C]

On 11/15/2023 at 5:05 PM, NotMyFault said:

Problem 1.1 the swatch affects both the fill color (but only visible in layer thumbnail - this is a very frequent rendering bug on its own), and 1.2 the flood fill tool (setting the mask to reduced alpha).

I don’t think this could be intentional. The fill color should only affect one of them, but never both.

The active Colour well is simply that - and will control any active selection or Tool. If you have the Fill Layer selected, it will change the colour of the Fill Layer - if you have the Flood Fill Tool selected, it will control the fill applied when next 'tapping' with the Flood Fill Tool. If you have both the Fill Layer and Flood Fill Tool selected, it's expected for the Colour well to control both the active fill in the Fill Layer and the colour next used when 'tapping' with the Flood Fill Tool.

I certainly understand that this could perhaps be improved from a UI/UX standpoint, but it isn't a technically bug in the app.

Personally I would recommend not using the Fill Layer in conjunction with the Flood Fill Tool, as these tools are essentially battling each other and aren't specifically designed to be used together - however I'll be sure to pass your feedback through to our team here regarding the Fill Layer and pixel based tools - as I agree that there is certainly room for improvement

[walt.farrell]

14 minutes ago, Dan C said:

If you have both the Fill Layer and Flood Fill Tool selected, it's expected for the Colour well to control both the active fill in the Fill Layer and the colour next used when 'tapping' with the Flood Fill Tool.

Part of the issue is that any painting on a Fill Layer (which the Flood Fill Tool would do) affects only the Mask (alpha channel), isn't it?

I would think that either (a) using Flood Fill on a Fill Layer should be disabled or (b) the processing for this specific case would need to be fundamentally changed.

[NotMyFault]

1 hour ago, Dan C said:

Personally I would recommend not using the Fill Layer in conjunction with the Flood Fill Tool, as these tools are essentially battling each other and aren't specifically designed to be used together - however I'll be sure to pass your feedback through to our team here regarding the Fill Layer and pixel based tools - as I agree that there is certainly room for improvement

1000% yes.

54 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I would think that either (a) using Flood Fill on a Fill Layer should be disabled or (b) the processing for this specific case would need to be fundamentally changed.

Yes, simply a decision is needed which function gets priority. I would vote for „fill color (affecting layer)“ and agains „fill tool (affecting mask)“.

[walt.farrell]

5 minutes ago, NotMyFault said:

Yes, simply a decision is needed which function gets priority. I would vote for „fill color (affecting layer)“ and agains „fill tool (affecting mask)“.

Or, perhaps, no painting should be allowed on the implicit mask of a Fill layer. If you want to adjust the mask of a Fill layer, create an explicit Mask, and paint on that.

[NotMyFault]

1 minute ago, walt.farrell said:

Or, perhaps, no painting should be allowed on the implicit mask of a Fill layer. If you want to adjust the mask of a Fill layer, create an explicit Mask, and paint on that.

That is an option, but it would break consistency. Fill layers act as adjustment layers, so they should have a inherent mask.

my mental model of a fill layer is a color mixer or levels or curves adjustment, where all channels are set to a constant value. It is totally superfluous, but very convenient UI wise.