Curve issue

[Darstrial]

I am on Windows, Affinity Designer version 1.10.6. 1665

When I am placing a curve inside a shape, such as an Eclipse, the Curve will go inside the Shape.

If I do the same thing with a Curve (Curve in a Curve), the child object disappears.

(If I were to convert the Eclipse to a curve, it would behave the same way)

 

How do I have the child object (the curve) behave just like if I were to use it with the circle.

I make the Curves with the Brush tool in Designer Persona.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Darstrial

[NotMyFault]

Can you upload the actual test document?
 

clipping works identical for shapes and curves, but it works only on closed objects with a fill, not on stroke colored areas.

so I can only assume you used only the stroke color in the right side circle. Give it a fill color (and transparent stroke color).

[GarryP]

Welcome to the forums @Darstrial

Just because a layer is a child layer of another layer, and it looks to be in the ‘same place’ as the parent layer if you look at the Layers Panel, doesn’t mean that it can be seen inside that parent layer.

One of the first things to do is make sure that the child layer you are trying to clip with the parent layer is visible within the extents of the parent layer.

For example, in my screenshot, the “Blue Right” Curve layer is not within the visible extents of the “Right” Curve Layer and so cannot be seen, but the “Black Right” Curve layer can be seen.

[thomaso]

In addition to GarryP's hint: apart from the position on the page also the size of the two objects matter. In this case the nested drawing may easily disappear 'inside' its parent curve.

[Darstrial]

15 hours ago, GarryP said:

Welcome to the forums @Darstrial

Just because a layer is a child layer of another layer, and it looks to be in the ‘same place’ as the parent layer if you look at the Layers Panel, doesn’t mean that it can be seen inside that parent layer.

One of the first things to do is make sure that the child layer you are trying to clip with the parent layer is visible within the extents of the parent layer.

For example, in my screenshot, the “Blue Right” Curve layer is not within the visible extents of the “Right” Curve Layer and so cannot be seen, but the “Black Right” Curve layer can be seen.

Thank you for your reply! You are absolutely correct, I didn't add this extra detail to my original post.

However, to clarify, the child object was in the extents of the parent layer.

I am unsure you know this detail, but "curve in a curve" refers to a stroke within a stroke.

[Darstrial]

14 hours ago, thomaso said:

In addition to GarryP's hint: apart from the position on the page also the size of the two objects matter. In this case the nested drawing may easily disappear 'inside' its parent curve.

Thank you for your addition, I have made both parent objects the same size. This change did not affect the visibility of the stroke.

[Return]

No problem here on windows.

[Darstrial]

17 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

Can you upload the actual test document?
 

clipping works identical for shapes and curves, but it works only on closed objects with a fill, not on stroke colored areas.

so I can only assume you used only the stroke color in the right side circle. Give it a fill color (and transparent stroke color).

I have attached two files, one of them being the original and the other being an updated one. For the updated document, I changed the objects inside of it to be up to standard to other suggestions.

 

When giving the right circle a fill color and a transparent stroke color, it disappears.

Thank you.

Curve Issue.afdesignCurve Issue Updated.afdesign

Edited September 21, 2023 by Darstrial

[Darstrial]

1 hour ago, Return said:

No problem here on windows.

How did you create the curve? I forgot to mention I used a stroke.

[Return]

Sorry I missed the part of the stroke in the stroke.
But I think the question should be why would you do that and what is it that you want to achieve?

[thomaso]

3 minutes ago, Darstrial said:

I forgot to mention I used a stroke.

This is the problem. You can't nest an object inside a stroke this way. The actual line is too tiny to include the black object. – What was your reason/purpose to do it this way?

[NotMyFault]

8 minutes ago, Darstrial said:

When giving the right circle a fill color and a transparent stroke color, it disappears.

Yes, by design. If you nest layers as child to a parent, the parent needs to be a filled curve. Only the area inside the curve leads to nested clipped child layers.

just convert an ellipse to curves. Use the node tool to inspect nodes and the area build by the curve.

strokes will be rendered after clipping, and never reveal anything from clip-nested child layers.

[Darstrial]

1 hour ago, Return said:

Sorry I missed the part of the stroke in the stroke.
But I think the question should be why would you do that and what is it that you want to achieve?

 

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

This is the problem. You can't nest an object inside a stroke this way. The actual line is too tiny to include the black object. – What was your reason/purpose to do it this way?

The reason to do this was, when I'm drawing, I shade it by putting a stroke over the object and using that stroke as a blur. I figured to put the blurred strokes inside the object, such as this eclipse, which makes it look better with white backgrounds. It also makes it much cleaner, as in when I put objects behind a shaded eclipse, for example, all the strokes that stick out would overlay the object behind the eclipse.

I like to draw with the paintbrush tool, when making characters and objects, I find it easier to use strokes instead of converting the shape into a curve and editing it manually. However putting strokes inside of another stroke won't work, which is my issue.

 

[thomaso]

5 minutes ago, NotMyFault said:

the parent needs to be a filled curve. Only the area inside the curve leads to nested clipped child layers.

Apart from that the workflow is not useful: It is possible to nest sth inside a stroke without fill if the curve is a closed curve and thus can get set to 'align inside' + its order to "behind". Like so:

[thomaso]

25 minutes ago, Darstrial said:

The reason to do this was

You explain the use of the nested (black) object as shading. That's fine and no problem.

The question is rather, why you create the parent object (red) as tiny curve (0.4 pt) with a huge stroke (88.8 pt) … instead of simply using a closed, circular curve with a fill, and no stroke at all for instance.

[Darstrial]

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

You explain the use of the nested (black) object as shading. That's fine and no problem.

The question is rather, why you create the parent object (red) as tiny curve (0.4 pt) with a huge stroke (88.8 pt) … instead of simply using a closed, circular curve for instance.

 

This may be underwhelming, but I do not know. It is more of an example than it is of an actual project though. I'm not really that savvy with this program, although I've been using it for years.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Darstrial

[NotMyFault]

I Hope it is now clear why the method you used does not work in the way you expected. 
 

Do you need support to find a new/better method to achieve the desired results?

[NotMyFault]

6 hours ago, thomaso said:

Apart from that the workflow is not useful: It is possible to nest sth inside a stroke without fill if the curve is a closed curve and thus can get set to 'align inside' + its order to "behind". Like so:

The main criteria for the parent layer (to allow a clipped child layer becoming visible) is actually:

1. the curve must enclose an area. Open curves are kind of automatically closed by a straight line from end to start node. The actual colors for fill and stroke do not matter (except coloring that parent layer - no impact to visibility of child layers)
2. The stroke is always added in the specified order. So it is correct that a stroke in the wrong order may cover the clipped child layers with its color. If you use a semi-transparent color, child layers will shine trough partially.

it can become more complicated by using Layer FX or appearance panel / multiple fills and stroke, or by using vector brushes in Designer, or by using arrow heads as decoration.

The „dual personalities“ of curves wrt their fill (enclosed area) and stroke (additional coloring along the curved edge) are a fundamental principle, but the rules are sometimes unintuitive and leading to unexpected results. 

[Darstrial]

16 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

I Hope it is now clear why the method you used does not work in the way you expected. 
 

Do you need support to find a new/better method to achieve the desired results?

Sure.

[NotMyFault]

In Designer, you can use „expand stroke“. This will convert the area containing a stroke into a filled area, and allow the layer to be used as parent for clipping.

never the less, it would be best to not use strokes for defining areas. What you used to create something looking like a circle is just a very short straight line with ultra-thick stroke. 
 

there are  „creative sessions“ videos where other artists explain there workflows, where you can find inspirations.

https://youtu.be/GnjCYuVw3Y8?si=tavKF06YD_lbLc3e

https://affinityspotlight.com/article/get-inspired-with-31-creative-video-sessions-for-affinity/