Word and Character Count When Using Custom Fields

[Hangman]

In the previous Beta Custom Fields were excluded from the Word Count until the Fields were expanded, in the latest Beta they are now included in the Word Count when not expanded. I'm unsure if this change is by design as it's not mentioned in the 'bug fix' list if it was ever considered to be a bug.

However, when looking at both the Character Count With and Without Spaces, Custom Fields are treated as a single character when unexpanded, is this the expectation?

[MikeTO]

It was changed in 2.2 1931: "Fields are not being included in the word count (Fields now count 1 word)"

A field is counted as one word or one character, regardless of the number of words or characters. It's not ideal but it's better than it was before which was zero.

This is the thread we were talking about it in before:

 

[Hangman]

One thing I have noticed is that on text insertion, e.g., using filler text, the initial paragraph count is always one below the actual paragraph count, though the paragraph count is corrected when the cursor is clicked in the text frame...

[walt.farrell]

6 minutes ago, Hangman said:

One thing I have noticed is that on text insertion, e.g., using filler text, the initial paragraph count is always one below the actual paragraph count, though the paragraph count is corrected when the cursor is clicked in the text frame...

I see that on Windows, too. It's not new in the beta.

[Hangman]

1 minute ago, walt.farrell said:

I see that on Windows, too. It's not new in the beta.

It was more just a general observation following on from the word count topic but good to know you see the same on Windows...

[Oufti]

2 hours ago, Hangman said:

the initial paragraph count is always one below the actual paragraph count […]

I have seen another strange thing in the line count (with AffPub 2.1.1) but it was one above, probably due to a control character being counted as a line?

 

 

[MikeTO]

16 hours ago, Oufti said:

I have seen another strange thing in the line count (with AffPub 2.1.1) but it was one above, probably due to a control character being counted as a line?

I believe that is correct.

• When you first draw a text frame it has 0 characters, 0 words, 0 lines, 0 paragraphs
• If you type a character, it has 1 character, 1 word, 1 line, 1 paragraph
• If you press Return, it has 1 character, 1 word, 2 lines, 2 paragraphs

The paragraph mark is for the start of a new paragraph, not the end of the paragraph on which it's shown, so selecting it selects the start of the next line.

I tested it out and the only thing I found that was odd was:

• When you first draw a text frame it has 0 characters, 0 words, 0 lines, 0 paragraphs
• If you press Return, it has 0 characters, 0 words, 2 lines, 1 paragraph

I think that this might be incorrect but it really doesn't matter, nobody cares about word count in a text frame that has nothing but one carriage return.

[Oufti]

1 hour ago, MikeTO said:

I believe that is correct.

• When you first draw a text frame it has 0 characters, 0 words, 0 lines, 0 paragraphs
• If you type a character, it has 1 character, 1 word, 1 line, 1 paragraph
• If you press Return, it has 1 character, 1 word, 2 lines, 2 paragraphs

This is not what I observe when I select all: 

There is no return and saying we have two lines on this capture seems contrary to common sense (thus incorrect in my opinion, whatever the underlying explanation). 

 

— After some more testing, counting lines is definitely unreliable because of this § end of story mark (the same for a ¶ paragraph mark) counting an extra line: 

This is also somewhat related to the way I select a line (triple click or mouse drag or shift-arrow). Some more investigation will be required but I think it's not the topic to discuss that?

 

1 hour ago, MikeTO said:

The paragraph mark is for the start of a new paragraph, not the end of the paragraph on which it's shown, so selecting it selects the start of the next line.

This "feature" could also probably be something to go deeper about in a topic in itself but it's something I struggle with from the beginning (the same seems to apply also in Apple's Pages). — I was used with Word where the end of paragraph mark includes all its settings.  

If you already knew somewhere where this point is detailed (pilcrows indicating the beginning of the next paragraph, not the end) — what it implies when selecting a paragraph by double-click or single click at the end of a paragraph, when deleting a paragraph mark, and so on —, i'd be very grateful if you could give me a link about it. 

[MikeTO]

31 minutes ago, Oufti said:

This is not what I observe when I select all: 

I wasn't selecting, just typing. You're right, there's a difference.

• When you first draw a text frame it has 0 characters, 0 words, 0 lines, 0 paragraphs
  • Choose Select All and it has 0 characters, 0 words, 2 lines, 0 paragraphs - I think it should be 1 line but if it's 2 then the above should be 1, but that would be weird
• If you type a character, it has 1 character, 1 word, 1 line, 1 paragraph
  • Choose Select All and it has 1 character, 1 word, 2 lines, 1 paragraph
• If you deselect and then press Return, it has 1 character, 1 word, 2 lines, 2 paragraphs
  • Choose Select All and it has 1 character, 1 word, 3 lines, 2 paragraph - it doesn't have 3 lines

But this isn't new in the beta, this was a 2.0 feature.

[Oufti]

9 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

But this isn't new in the beta, this was a 2.0 feature.

You are right.

Given your experience here, to discuss this further should I create a bug report or a feedback?

[MikeTO]

On 8/18/2023 at 1:32 PM, Oufti said:

You are right.

Given your experience here, to discuss this further should I create a bug report or a feedback?

I just copied it over to a new thread in the bugs forum.

 

[Oufti]

 

2 hours ago, MikeTO said:

I just copied it over to a new thread in the bugs forum.

Thank you. 

 

On 8/18/2023 at 6:43 PM, Oufti said:

After some more testing, counting lines is definitely unreliable because of this § end of story mark (the same for a ¶ paragraph mark) counting an extra line: 

[…]

This is also somewhat related to the way I select a line (triple click or mouse drag or shift-arrow). Some more investigation will be required but I think it's not the topic to discuss that?

I have posted in your bug report thread the results of my investigations. 

In short, selecting the last character of a line — whatever its nature, character, space, end of paragraph or end of story marks… — counts for two lines. But not always, following the way you select it.