Logitech MX3 mouse scrolling issues

[chrisnz]

Hi All,

I just searched for any previous issues reported and saw a few older posts about Logitech mice not always working well. I have now the same issue with current version of Publisher on macOS 12.6 (21G115), on a almost new Mac Studio fully loaded. I have been away for a while from Publisher work but have used thug mouse before, and I am sure I did not have this issue previously, bit more than a year ago.

Right now, some panels on right don't scroll, the pages panel on left seems to scroll ok, and scrolling actual pages in main part of window, it zooms instead of scrolls. I checked the Logitech settings and everything else I could try in Affinity or systems settings. I also tested the original Apple mouse works just fine.

Anyone else having the same issues? Is Affinity aware of any bugs being worked on?

Cheers

Chris

[walt.farrell]

There is a setting in Publisher Preferences, Tools section, that uses the Mouse Wheel to Zoom. Perhaps you have that set?

[chrisnz]

Hi Walt,

 

Apologies, I should have seen that before I posted! That's sorted, but what actually prompted me to post, is the fact that panels on the right don't scroll with the mouse wheel. And attached is a screen shot of the "Paragraph" panel with lots of scrolling space, to show where in the interface this is not working. Wonder if anyone else is using the same Logitec mouse on a mac to confirm this is in fact an issue?

 

Cheers

Chris

[walt.farrell]

6 hours ago, chrisnz said:

And attached is a screen shot of the "Paragraph" panel with lots of scrolling space, to show where in the interface this is not working.

I think that lack of scrolling is intentional.

There are a lot of fields in that panel that you might adjust accidentally if you intended to scroll the panel, but happened to have the mouse cursor over one of the fields. Due to complaints about that, if I remember correctly, scrolling via the mouse wheel was disabled in that panel some time ago.

[MikeTO]

Your Logitech MX3 mouse will work fine with Affinity, I have an MX3 Anywhere and there are no issues. I don't use the Logitech software.

It doesn't matter which brand of mouse you have, you can't scroll any panels in Affinity, at least on macOS. As Walt said, Affinity software allows scrolling the value in a numeric text field but it's different than Adobe software and most other apps. Normally when an app allows scrolling numeric values in text fields it happens only when the field has focus (when the cursor is in it). With Affinity, the mouse pointer only needs to be over the field for it to scroll. If Affinity allowed scrolling of panels and you moved the mouse a tiny amount while scrolling you'd suddenly be scrolling a text field rather than the panel. macOS guidelines state that you can't put a scroll view (anything scrollable) inside another scroll view because of this reason, the unpredictable outcome.

It may seem that some Affinity panels are scrollable but what you're actually doing is scrolling one specific control in the panel. The Layers and Text Styles panels are good examples of this - you're scrolling the contents of the layers or text fields list controls, not the panels themselves.

Apple Pages and Numbers allow scrolling of their panels but they don't allow scrolling of the numeric text values. Adobe apps allow scrolling of their panels but they scroll values in a text field only when they have focus.

As a result, Affinity works a bit different than apps from Apple and Adobe. This isn't a big deal for people with large monitors because they'd rarely need to scroll a panel like Paragraph, but for those of us who work on a laptop screen it's a minor inconvenience. I just keep all the sections of Paragraph collapsed and open a section only when I need it so that I never need to scroll the panel.

There are also some minor inconsistencies with scrolling in text fields. For example, the Colour panel's Opacity text field is not scrollable with the mouse wheel but the same control in Swatches is scrollable. There's a reason for this - one opens a pulldown list of values while the other opens a popup slider - but they really should work the same.

[thomaso]

4 hours ago, MikeTO said:

If Affinity allowed scrolling of panels and you moved the mouse a tiny amount while scrolling you'd suddenly be scrolling a text field rather than the panel. 

Wouldn't it be possible that mouse wheel scrolling gets enabled when the cursor is hovering a scrollbar in panels and document windows? It would reduce the need for click + mouse move in these situation where a user "just" wants to scroll. The available four* different methods to change values is nice to have but I'd rather waive 1 of 4 and be able to use the scroll wheel for scrolling, at least in scroll bars. *scrollwheel | horizontal click-drag | up-down arrow buttons | typing

Interestingly on a macbook trackpad scrolling IS possible in panels with the scroll gesture (2 fingers), but not to change values, even not if the field gets clicked/activated via the trackpad first.

Whereas a tablet pen doesn't offer the trackpad scroll option: though it requires for a value change either click + pen button + drag / or click + horizontal drag it does not scroll with a simple click-drag (up-down) when hovering over a panel, as I would assume according to the trackpad behaviour.

So it feels some way oddly non-intuitive, especially by the Affinity-specific differences a user needs to consider for various devices.

[chrisnz]

8 hours ago, MikeTO said:

t doesn't matter which brand of mouse you have, you can't scroll any panels in Affinity, at least on macOS. As Walt said, Affinity software allows scrolling the value in a numeric text field but it's different than Adobe software and most other apps. Normally when an app allows scrolling numeric values in text fields it happens only when the field has focus (when the cursor is in it). With Affinity, the mouse pointer only needs to be over the field for it to scroll. If Affinity allowed scrolling of panels and you moved the mouse a tiny amount while scrolling you'd suddenly be scrolling a text field rather than the panel. macOS guidelines state that you can't put a scroll view (anything scrollable) inside another scroll view because of this reason, the unpredictable outcome.

I just tried to connect both mice simultaneously and tested the following:

1) I can use MX3 mouse to just scroll in actual fields once I hover over them

2) I can use the Apple mouse to scroll the panel as such, BUT no scrolling in fields

How does this make sense? Not at all it seems to me  Why can't Affinity make both mice behave in the same way nd simply treat a mouse with wheel the same as the touch mouse from Apple by default. Perhaps, yes allow a separate additional preference setting to change that for third party mice if enough people request it and need that specific feature for those mice. But the way it works now is strange and makes zero sense.

[MikeTO]

11 hours ago, thomaso said:

Wouldn't it be possible that mouse wheel scrolling gets enabled when the cursor is hovering a scrollbar in panels and document windows? It would reduce the need for click + mouse move in these situation where a user "just" wants to scroll. The available four* different methods to change values is nice to have but I'd rather waive 1 of 4 and be able to use the scroll wheel for scrolling, at least in scroll bars. *scrollwheel | horizontal click-drag | up-down arrow buttons | typing

I don't think we need to figure this all out, Serif is aware of the issue. But it would be better to just fix the underlying issue which is numeric text field values shouldn't change during mouse wheel scrolling except when they have focus than to create a new UX experience where the pointer has to be over a scrollbar - that would have the same issue, if you shifted the mouse pointer just a bit while scrolling then the panel scrolling would stop which would lead to confusion. Also, scrollbars aren't visible by default on macOS.

11 hours ago, thomaso said:

Interestingly on a macbook trackpad scrolling IS possible in panels with the scroll gesture (2 fingers), but not to change values, even not if the field gets clicked/activated via the trackpad first.

A trackpad 2-finger drag is not the same as a mouse wheel scroll, they are different events to an app and are handled separately. You can't scroll to change values in a field with a trackpad drag.

8 hours ago, chrisnz said:

2) I can use the Apple mouse to scroll the panel as such, BUT no scrolling in fields

How does this make sense? Not at all it seems to me

It's because the Apple Mouse doesn't have a scroll wheel and what you're doing is the same as a 2-finger drag on a trackpad. It's a different event.

[thomaso]

6 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

that would have the same issue, if you shifted the mouse pointer just a bit while scrolling then the panel scrolling would stop which would lead to confusion. Also, scrollbars aren't visible by default on macOS.

One wouldn't need to exclude the other but leave it to the user's mouse skills*. Of course both, click-drag AND hover-scroll, could work in scroll bars – like it does in the macOS Finder. (*does it indeed happen that one moves the mouse while turning the scroll wheel?)

Visibility: in macOS you have 3 options when scroll bars shall occur. System Preferences > General > Scroll bars.
Having it set to "only when scrolling" sounds to me rather like an argument for enabling wheel scrolling in Affinity panels because you can't click-drag an invisible scroll bar (… to make it appear by scrolling).

[chrisnz]

6 hours ago, MikeTO said:

It's because the Apple Mouse doesn't have a scroll wheel and what you're doing is the same as a 2-finger drag on a trackpad. It's a different event.

Last time I looked at my mouse, albeit a 'magic' touch mouse, I was not thinking, "hm, I want to select a certain event", I was thinking, "how can I scroll down in a window or panel where something is obviously hidden.

Technical semantics aside, can anyone else perhaps chime in if the action of scrolling, regardless of brand or type of mouse should be consistent? That, in a nutshell is the question...? Sorry for being a bit unclear in my original post in the first place.

And ideally even better, if Affinity could perhaps acknowledge that they are re-evaluating the consistency of the end user experience when navigating in panels?

TIA

[MikeTO]

4 hours ago, N.P.M. said:

I can scroll in any panel on windows(10) 

In some of your examples, you're scrolling the list control and not the panel. It's just that the list control takes up most of the panel so it seems like you're scrolling the panel itself.

• Layers and Glyphis - you're scrolling the list control and not the panel
• Character - you're expanding and collapsing a section of the panel, not scrolling the panel with the mouse scroll wheel
• Paragraph - it looks like you're really scrolling the panel - with a mouse scroll wheel? This isn't possible on macOS.