thomaso Posted December 1, 2021 Posted December 1, 2021 I can define a tab distance + use this for a series of tabs without the need to create tabs in the text frame ruler or the tabs section in the paragraph panel. That's fine. But these auto-tabs seem to be possible as left aligned only. As expected setting the text alignment to right doesn't help here. In the example below, the single digits make their left-aligned tabs obvious; they are not right aligned with the two-digit numbers. Is there a way to get auto-tabs right aligned? Well, I can add tabs manually but then I have to set the right alignment for every tab again and again because each additional tab gets created as left aligned. Or is there any way to select all manually created tabs + set their alignment at once? Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1
thomaso Posted December 2, 2021 Author Posted December 2, 2021 On 12/1/2021 at 7:20 AM, Lagarto said: I think this could be considered a kind of a bug in the context of Affinity apps normally "remembering" the last applied formatting, and especially in this context. You mean, there is indeed no way to define the default auto-tab more than by its distance? (I thought it could be a hidden secret of the UI) Actually I don't miss here any "remembering" or copy/paste ability for tab stops but rather the already coded & designed options which ARE available for a manually created tab. It appears quite strange that auto Tab Stops did not get them – as if they were simply forgotten to get placed in the UI design next to their default distance field. Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1
R C-R Posted December 2, 2021 Posted December 2, 2021 11 hours ago, Lagarto said: This is (IMO) another one of those things where there was no point in trying to invent the wheel again. I think maybe it was more that they were just not thinking much about anything other than the simplest 'traditional' case of repeating evenly spaced tab stops back when the only Affinity apps were AD & AP & setting the stops had to be done in the Paragraph studio. So when APub was released & the Frame text ruler was added, they did not want to reinvent the 'wheel' they already had, so to speak. Personally, I think the whole idea of setting tab stops in the Paragraph panel using a default value & an 'add' button is a terrible one that never should have been considered. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
R C-R Posted December 2, 2021 Posted December 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, Lagarto said: If it just remembered the last used tab stop type (and align on character), and allowed the specified distance counting from the selected tab stop, it would work pretty well. But it does not do any of those things. All it has now is a "Add New Tab Stop" button that can only add one at the so-called "Default Tab Stops" distance from the left side of the text frame. So for example, if you are using the Paragraph panel & you want to set a new stop at anything other than this default, you cannot do that with a single click. It isn't even that easy to set the default distance because the little up/down arrows change it in 0.01 document unit increments & there is no slider popup for quick coarse settings than then be fine tuned. 42 minutes ago, Lagarto said: I think it is a good alternative for the the ruler-based setup, and allows also checking the tab stop positions in one view. Consider something like this tabs, what tabs?.afdesign example. The paragraph panel shows the text frame has no tab stops, but if you change the "Default Tab Stops" setting the word positions change because there are 2 tabs in the text. You can add a tab stop but it does not seem to have any effect on the word positions unless the existing tabs are deleted & new ones added after setting a new stop. Maybe I just don't understand how that is supposed to work but to make sense of it I always end up opening such files in APub, where I can use the frame text ruler to see what is going on. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
R C-R Posted December 3, 2021 Posted December 3, 2021 41 minutes ago, Lagarto said: No, but neither does ruler based setting of tab positions. But just as a feature, the list can be very useful, and it can be a fast way to specify precise tab based tables. Sure, once you set the stops you can then set them precisely, but why not just allow direct entry of new stop positions to begin with? Not everything needs table-like tab stop spacings. 44 minutes ago, Lagarto said: So when you decrease the size of the text, the 0.45in stops can be used for word2 and word3... Except they are not actually stops, or at least not ones that show in the list in the Paragraph panel, what you call "virtual tab positions." Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
thomaso Posted December 3, 2021 Author Posted December 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Lagarto said: No, but neither does ruler based setting of tab positions. But just as a feature, the list can be very useful, and it can be a fast way to specify precise tab based tables. 1 hour ago, R C-R said: Sure, once you set the stops you can then set them precisely, but why not just allow direct entry of new stop positions to begin with? I also appreciate the tabs list. It gives a better overview and can be easier to edit both its position and properties (in the ruler with mouse/cursor it happens too easily to move a tab unsolicited). As you say, the tab stop panel section appears someway not to be finished yet. I don't prefer a specific way of adding stops, either via the currently existing auto-tab-stop '+' icon or with an additional "auto-fill" option with the recently set stop definition. Another way could be to add stops from the list via an additional '+' button at each list entry*. Or some way of copy-paste or drag-copy. There are several ways to enable this. The main thing is that I don't have to manually format each single newly created tab if I just want a specific tab stop definition to continue. * the tab stop fields currently seem unnecessarily wide and could donate some space for an additional '+' button. Conversely, I'd appreciate wider fields in the Transform panel, which are not only more frequently used, but also might require more nerdy decimal precision than tab stops or could display possibly typed calculations with more lengths. Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1
thomaso Posted December 3, 2021 Author Posted December 3, 2021 45 minutes ago, Lagarto said: I think the control is somehow badly broken. On Windows this works: I am afraid I don't understand what you demonstrate exactly. My concern is not creating tab stops with any individual distance but rather create A.) repeated tabs with B.) another than the default left aligned formatting. In each of your 3 clips (Windows included) you seem to first get left aligned tabs which you then have to turn into right aligned, manually, tab by tab. Are you able in Windows to create a right aligned tab + multiple repeat that? (either in identical or whatever distance) Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1
R C-R Posted December 3, 2021 Posted December 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Lagarto said: On macOS the specified new distance however IS added to the last tab position (so it has the functionality that I initially wished, only that the control is otherwise broken): I don't even get that. When I try to change the Default Tab Stops setting when there are no tab stops in the list, as soon as I click on the Add New Tab Stop button, the Default Tab Stops setting reverts to whatever it was set to before I changed it, & a new stop is added at that distance. It works like in your video only if I use the small up/down buttons to change the default. This is with text with tabs added to the text frame before I try this. If the text frame is empty, then it works like it does in your video -- the default does not revert. 3 hours ago, Lagarto said: If the values are typed in directly in the already created tab stops I get more or less crazy values on both platforms. I am not sure what you mean by that. It looks to me like the typed in values are applied exactly as indicated. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
R C-R Posted December 3, 2021 Posted December 3, 2021 11 hours ago, Lagarto said: I type them in reverse order, biggest (and last) value first. But in your video, that works as I would expect. You changed 1.5 to 5 & that worked; then 1.0 to 3 & that worked; & then .5 to 2 & that worked. So I must still be missing something if that video was supposed to show 'crazy' values. Also, for me I can change an existing smaller value to a larger one. That works fine. It just reorders the tabs in the list. 10 hours ago, Lagarto said: I think we might also talk about a bit different things when we talk about the "default" interval or alignment type. I do not remember any app (but perhaps there are such) that allows defining of the default (app level) interval and alignment type for tabbing in general... What I am talking about when I say "default" in this context is the Default Tab Stops setting in the Paragraph panel. (That is the tooltip name shown when I hover the pointer over that field.) It isn't a tab stop type, but (at least in theory) it is the value the Add New Tab Stop button uses when creating a new tab stop. 10 hours ago, Lagarto said: You need to confirm the new value by hitting Enter. I think this is a usability glitch, just clicking the Add Tab button should apply the new setting and indicate user acceptance. Thanks for explaining that it (uselessly?) needs to be confirmed. Since using the up/down arrows does not need to be confirmed, it seems like it must be an oversight, not 'by design' or a simple glitch. All in all, I still think the implementation of this feature is terrible, even if everything worked as designed. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
R C-R Posted December 3, 2021 Posted December 3, 2021 18 minutes ago, Lagarto said: So the video shows the solution, while trying to enter the values in order would show that "crazy" behavior. Like I said, I do not see that happening: if for example I have 3 existing stops at 20, 40, & 60 px & then change the 20 to 100. All that happens is the list is reordered, so it shows 40, 60, 100. Are you maybe talking about something else when you say "in order"? EDIT: Tab stop change.afdesign with history shows what I get. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
R C-R Posted December 3, 2021 Posted December 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Lagarto said: Here are the "crazy" values. I don't see anything crazy about it. Unless I am missing something it just reorders the stops in the list so it always shows the smallest value first & largest last. So for example, when you change 0.5 to 2, that entry just moves to the end of the list, moving the 1 & 1.5 entries up to the first & second positions without changing their values.The only one that changed was that the stop that was at 0.5 moved to 2 because you changed it. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
Old Bruce Posted December 3, 2021 Posted December 3, 2021 The word "Second" goes past the first tab, and so the "5" is using the default 0.5 inch default. Quote Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.6 Affinity Designer 2.5.7 | Affinity Photo 2.5.7 | Affinity Publisher 2.5.7 | Beta versions as they appear. I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.
R C-R Posted December 3, 2021 Posted December 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, Old Bruce said: The word "Second" goes past the first tab, and so the "5" is using the default 0.5 inch default. What was earlier described as a 'virtual' tab stop? Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
Old Bruce Posted December 3, 2021 Posted December 3, 2021 Tabs are at 0.5 inches if you don't set your own values. Or if you change the value to 0.75 they will be at 3/4s of an inch. Nothing virtual about it. It is like the old Manual typewriters we all used to use. Quote Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.6 Affinity Designer 2.5.7 | Affinity Photo 2.5.7 | Affinity Publisher 2.5.7 | Beta versions as they appear. I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.
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