How to import calendar from ID CS6 into Publisher?

[malebron]

Hello, I just purchased Affinity Publisher to replace InDesign CS6 which I have used each year to create an annual calendar. I only have enough InDesign experience to do the same thing once a year, so I apologize if the question is a basic one.  I started by importing my most recent calendar using IDML, but I have not figured out how to create the editing experience I'm used to.

The printed calendar is in typical landscape orientation so that when it's displayed you see a photo on the top page, and a calendar grid on the page below. The import has paired the pages correctly, but the each page pair is rotated sideways (like a book). If I rotate the view it looks OK except the pages/spreads are shown left-to-right in reverse order (back cover on left to front cover on the right) - also it seems tools (like the text tool) work up-down, not right-left.

I'd like to work with the pages in landscape orientation, with front cover at the top and the rear cover (which is inverted for print) at the bottom. Spreads should be paired together with the left page on top.

I didn't see any options on import so I guess I need to tweak settings. Perhaps an experienced user can suggest how to achieve this?

Thanks

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by malebron

[stokerg]

Hi @malebron and Welcome to the Forums,

As you have to rotate the view, which i suspect will down to how we read IDML files, we have to read the PDF portion so that could explain why it looks that way when first opened. But as you've found out, the text box when placed work up-down, you'd have to rotate the text box so it works left to right.  You can rotate the text box by using the R field on the Transform panel, while you have the text box selected or via the lolly pop handle, which is a line with a circle on top which will currently be sticking out from the left of the text box, when selected.

If you'd like to upload the IDML file to our Dropbox here and i can log an improvement with the Dev team to see if theres a way for us to handle these type of files better.  But as i've said above, this could all be down to us having to read the PDF part of the IDML so we might not be able to do much. 

[malebron]

Thank you @stokerg - One of the reasons I picked Affinity was its ability to import from InDesign, however based on your answer, my best option might be to rebuild everything from scratch. (which I don't have enough time to do right now).

I also tried importing from PDF - this gives similar results without the page pairs and less structural information. Same rotation issue.

It's very disconcerting when the document appears backwards and sideways when I rotate the view. Is it because the pages are defined as portrait mode? If I could change the pages to landscape mode somehow would that help?

My biggest concern is that, if I edit the imported file in Publisher and export to pdf for print, will I get the same result as doing the same thing from ID?

NOTE My calendar is based on the standard template from Magcloud (part of Blurb) - This template imports in the same way.
https://www.magcloud.com/create/templates/downloadstarter/2021-magcloud-standard-calendar-template-indesign.zip

[Komatös]

Hi @malebron

I couldn't sleep and reworked the template without further ado.

I created two master pages. One is for the front & back cover, the other for the monthly pages.
If the page layout doesn't fit, you have to duplicate for the master page for the months and halve the page height and realign the repeating page elements (day names and guideline grid).
In this case, you must also reposition the day numbers.

Otherwise, have fun with the template

2021 Calendar reworked .afpub

[malebron]

I really appreciate your work @Komatös, but the proof is in the pudding, as they say. I exported your reworked template to pdf in Publisher, and compared it to the original template exported to pdf from InDesign - after all, this is is the file I must upload to Magcloud for publishing and which they expect to conform to their guidelines for the product.

Unfortunately the resulting pdf from Publisher is totally different, so I'm sure it will either not be acceptable to Magcloud and/or create a different printed result.

I also tried exporting the original template (after IDML import ) from Publisher - and again the result was quite different to that from InDesign, so it looks like I don't have I have a Publisher solution at this time.

By the way, I'm using InDesign CS6, and imported exactly the same IDML file as I imported into Publisher.

 

[thomaso]

On 11/22/2021 at 9:58 PM, malebron said:

The printed calendar is in typical landscape orientation so that when it's displayed you see a photo on the top page, and a calendar grid on the page below. The import has paired the pages correctly, but the each page pair is rotated sideways (like a book). If I rotate the view it looks OK except the pages/spreads are shown left-to-right in reverse order (back cover on left to front cover on the right) - also it seems tools (like the text tool) work up-down, not right-left.

 When I open your IDML and use menu View > Rotate right then I get the layout pages shown as top and bottom page, with indeed in running from right to left as you mentioned. But to me the text frames appear with left to right typing direction for text, so it can be edited as usual. – What would bother me a lot more is the way this IDML was created and saved, the dates 1-30 on each page aren't set in 1 text frame or table but each number in a separate text frame, which makes it very cumbersome to adjust them for another year. Furthermore each of the hundreds of single objects are locked when the document gets opened, a lot of clicks would be required to unlock them all.

So I'd use from this IDML in APub the Master Pages only without the dates, and add in APub the dates in newly created text frames. It even appears more attractive to start the calendar in APub from scratch, maybe with some of the objects copied from the IDML if wanted, e.g. master page contents.

Note, different to your InDesign file, APub does enable you to setup a document with facing pages vertically, so there is no need to rotate objects or view when working in APub only. Then also the page thumbnails in the Pages panel would appear correctly.

Click to enlarge...
   

[thomaso]

15 hours ago, stokerg said:

As you have to rotate the view, which i suspect will down to how we read IDML files, we have to read the PDF portion so that could explain why it looks that way when first opened. But as you've found out, the text box when placed work up-down, you'd have to rotate the text box so it works left to right.  You can rotate the text box by using the R field on the Transform panel, while you have the text box selected or via the lolly pop handle, which is a line with a circle on top which will currently be sticking out from the left of the text box, when selected.

If you'd like to upload the IDML file to our Dropbox here and i can log an improvement with the Dev team to see if theres a way for us to handle these type of files better.

@stokerg I wonder if the OP did not rotate the view but rather changed the page orientation. (to me their text frames appeared correctly after rotating the view only). But this brings another improvement to my mind: an additional option in the "Spread Setup…" / "Spread Properties…" dialogs, which allows to rotate all existing page content when the page orientation gets switched. – Below I swapped page 1 from portrait to landscape but the page content remained in its initial orientation:

If content rotation would be possible with a change of the page orientation then also a switch from horizontal to vertical page layout could work. (p.s.: note the aspect ratio of the page thumbnail of spread 2/3, it looks wrong, compared to pg1 and the not rotated spread 4/5)

 

[malebron]

@thomasoI did, in fact, rotate the view, not the contents (although I tried that, with the same results as you)

The template is Magcloud's - my calendar is based on it but heavily edited. I can happily replace any content - I use the template primarily to ensure I have the correct parameters and format they require to print the same as prior calendars. I'm concerned that if I start from scratch some setting will be wrong (I am a photographer, not a desktop publisher!)

Updates:

1) If I edit the text in rotated view all is well. New text is entered in the old (unrotated) orientation. (that IS confusing!)

2) After further testing I think I may be able to export the template from APub to create a similar pdf as InDesign does. It appears the default is to export spreads rather than pages. (I happened to be watching a beginners tutorial and luckily noticed this option). I need to test further, but it definitely looks more similar.

 

[thomaso]

11 hours ago, malebron said:

1) If I edit the text in rotated view all is well. New text is entered in the old (unrotated) orientation. (that IS confusing!)

Ah, I haven't noticed this difference between text frames before / after view rotation. Indeed disturbing in this situation (though usefull in others, e.g. for easier editing of text frames which got rotated in the layout). However, ID and APub apparently handle text frames in rotated view differently.

In Affinity it seems to be impossible to create a horizontally orientated text frame in rotated view without the additional need to rotate the frame object, too. Quite a strange behavior from a UI / UX or intuitive workflow point of view. So it is not directly a problem of the IDML import, but rather a general problem in APubs view rotation behavior which is only made more obvious by the import.

[malebron]

Appreciate all your inputs, but because I had a deadline I made my calendar changes with ID again this year.  APub looks like a great ID replacement for my needs, but since it's IDML import does not present the document for simple editing in the same way as ID, I'm going to need a whole lot more time to learn the tool and match all the parameters manually.

I believe the template also contains a pdf export preset for Magcloud but if so, those settings don't seem to be picked up automatically (eg it exports spreads, not pages by default).

I'm sure I can work all this stuff out, but it's far from the plug-and-play replacement I was hoping for.

I'll take another look at your template @Komatös. The biggest issue I see is that when I export to pdf I only see spreads and there's no option for pages.  Once I figure out how to create an identical PDF to the one ID creates, I'll be confident to switch.

 

 

[thomaso]

52 minutes ago, malebron said:

I believe the template also contains a pdf export preset for Magcloud but if so, those settings don't seem to be picked up automatically

Currently Affinity doesn't handle this .joboptions files, so there is no way to use them yet. But I am sure you will be able to setup the export options according to your needs, or just ask again (btw, PDF export setup belongs to a frequently discussed topic in the forum;)

One advantage of Affinity for your calendar is its ability to arrange facing pages vertically (top/bottom instead of horizontally left/right), which makes it easier for your vertical layout, no need for view or object rotation and easy to export correctly as single pages.

I maybe misunderstanding the Magcloud file but the way the numbers are set (each in a single text frame) appears hard for calendar changes, where each months in a next year usually starts on another weekday. So when switching the project to APub I'd create a new text frame with tabs between its dates and place this frame on the according master page. Then, on the document pages, pressing tab a few times (or deleting tabs) might adjust each months for another year quite easily. Like this:

[malebron]

Thanks @thomaso, That explains the settings not coming over.

In ID no rotation is required. The file opens up correctly oriented for editing. All the page sizes, bleeds, colors and file options are taken care of. You are correct that I can figure them out for APub, but that will take time. As you see in the screenshot, ID displays the spreads with facing pages vertically, one above the other. Cover page on top. Export to pdf generates the individual pages (side-on, in portrait orientation), ready to upload to MC. (All by default. No expertise required on my part!)

I agree that their template is clunky, but I have used it for many years and each month/day configuration comes around more often than you'd expect. Did you know that many of the months in 2022 share the same days of the week as 2016? For those I just open up my 2016 calendar and cut/paste. Super-fast!

Also I think they make a new template each year, but I guess 2022 was not up yet when I looked. I usually edit a previous one of mine.

[thomaso]

8 hours ago, malebron said:

In ID no rotation is required. The file opens up correctly oriented for editing.

When I open your Magcloud .indd in CS6 then the Documents Window shows the pages vertically but the Pages Panel still has them horizontally arranged + a symbol for rotation. A right-click on the symbol pops-up the rotation options.

The difference to APub is the way text frames are handled in rotated view. ID does consider the rotated view and creates text frames as expected, whereas APub simply continues with text frames which got their bounding box and content rotated with the view. This makes it more complicated to edit. Since the calendar is an import from ID the initial text frames appear in APub accordingly correct while new created text frames need to get rotated for proper text edit.

That is why I'd prefer not to use this .idml in APub at all (aside the locked state of each single object layer and the separate frames for each day) but rather would create it from scratch in APub.

[malebron]

@thomasoThat's very interesting. Thanks for the detective work!

As an inexperienced user, I just see the file as expected and edit accordingly. I don't have to think about rotation since that's done for me automatically.

Sure, I can make my own APub template going forward, but that makes it very difficult to cut/paste months from previous calendars, or take advantage of new templates from MagCloud. It would be so much easier if APub opened files the same way as Id.

I can't be the only person dealing with this. Would you consider this a bug or a feature request? (and how do I make that request?)

[thomaso]

24 minutes ago, malebron said:

I can't be the only person dealing with this. Would you consider this a bug or a feature request? (and how do I make that request?)

I guess there aren't be many which used rotated pages in ID + need to edit them in APub. If I read this correct, the issue got logged already as a possible improvement and is not seen as a bug.

P.S.: You alternatively could use mix of ID + APub, e.g. by using from the .idml those elements only which create the grid (lines, boxes) and add the text frames created in APub. Consider if you work with master page objects it would make it even easier to use. You even could copy & paste the text frame content from the idml version into new afpub text frames.

[malebron]

Thanks. I guess it depends on the product goals. If they want to attract dissatisfied ID users, they should put a high priority on their IDML import function giving users the same experience as importing into ID.  Even new APub users are likely to find ID templates and files they might want to use, and this rotation thing may not be the only anomaly.

[Komatös]

6 hours ago, malebron said:

Thanks. I guess it depends on the product goals. If they want to attract dissatisfied ID users, they should put a high priority on their IDML import function giving users the same experience as importing into ID.  Even new APub users are likely to find ID templates and files they might want to use, and this rotation thing may not be the only anomaly.

Implementation is not that simple. Out of curiosity, you can unpack an IDML file with a packing programme (e.g. 7-Zip).

[thomaso]

3 hours ago, Komatös said:

Out of curiosity, you can unpack an IDML file with a packing programme (e.g. 7-Zip).

… or open it with a text / code editor app. It became developed as XML in purpose for more compatibility with older ID app versions.

[malebron]

11 hours ago, Komatös said:

Implementation is not that simple.

Not my job. I'm just a dumb user. If this is important to their desired customers the product team should prioritize it. Of course, they may have different priorities or different target customers. 

11 hours ago, Komatös said:

Out of curiosity, you can unpack an IDML file with a packing programme (e.g. 7-Zip).

Again, user here - not a programmer.

[nuptownboy]

Thanks for the effort that goes into these "free templates" which for the beginner are a real help. Having read the comments above is there anyway to get the 2021 calendar to update to 2022? Or is it necessary to edit each month. 

Data Merge is possible and I wondered if anyone had amended this to include this feature?

Nigel

[Komatös]

2 hours ago, nuptownboy said:

Thanks for the effort that goes into these "free templates" which for the beginner are a real help. Having read the comments above is there anyway to get the 2021 calendar to update to 2022? Or is it necessary to edit each month. 

Data Merge is possible and I wondered if anyone had amended this to include this feature?

Nigel

The calendar must be adjusted manually, data merging will not work here.

[malebron]

5 hours ago, nuptownboy said:

Thanks for the effort that goes into these "free templates" which for the beginner are a real help. Having read the comments above is there anyway to get the 2021 calendar to update to 2022? Or is it necessary to edit each month. 

The publisher Magcloud updates their template each year. The 2022 calendar template is now available. This is great for beginners, but unfortunately (per the thread above) there is an issue with Publisher not importing this template for editing in the same way InDesign does. 

It's also critical for final publishing that the edited template, when exported, is identical to the output from ID. I'm not yet sure this is the case as I was forced to revert to ID to create my calendar last year.

I'll be looking into AP again for my 2023 calendar, but unless resolved, Affinity's inability to import the template file correctly to allow portrait editing is a showstopper.