Smart Selection Tool and Refine Selection Tool Questions ? Please Help !

[augustya]

Hi Guys,

If I have a Portrait Photo of myself and I am trying to remove the background from it. And I use the smart selection tool and start selecting the subject that is me, what is the best width in smart selection tool to be kept, which can be used in most of the cases, and can be applicable in most cases or how does one decide what width has to be used? This is really bugging me  also in the particular photo that I was trying to remove the background, I had my hair running all over because of the spike hair style that I had, so I thought of using the Refine selection, how do I know in the first place if one has to use it or not ? Or I am good without using it ? At what point should I decide If I have to use the Refine Tool for sure after the smart selection. Or is it a ritual ? which has to be done for sure after smart selection ?

And second what width in the refine selection tool should be kept which works in most cases ? And  even after I used the Refine Tool in the final photo it leaves a reddish effect near my hair ? what is that ? how is it caused ? It happened only after used the refine selection. Even after using the refine filter properly why did it still show a reddish effect near my hair strands. What do I to avoid it ? Please check the attached picture for the reddish effect that the refine section brought in my picture on my hair.

 

 

[AllAppsUser]

Size. Most of the questions you ask are artistic ones. What I mean is: you use your judgement to decide what's aesthetically pleasing each time. And please note: there is always a compromise involved. Unless you're always going to be cutting out portraits of yourself on similar backgrounds there is no 'one-size' that works everytime.

I tend to operate with defaults mostly, myself. They are defaults for a reason. I only deviate from the defaults when there's a compelling reason to do so - artisitically.

The red. What colour was the background that's been removed? It looks to me as though it's a semi transparent mask because the hair has a lot of show-through (of the background) there.

I suggest you inspect the mask that's been created via solo view - that will reveal much. So you can either refine the mask edge so it shrinks in to remove the red, or you can create a border and overlay a neutralising colour on another layer. It all depends how much it bothers you (see 'important' below)

Important: You can spend a lifetime finessing cutouts, especially around hair. My advice to you is to think about the final size the image will be viewed at. If it's a lot smaller than shown here, then much of the detail won't show anyway. Try viewing the image at the size it'll be seen at and make your judgements/decisions based on that.

Most cutouts are a lot more crude than they appear. I've done more cutouts than I care to think about and most of them were a lot more crude than what you've shown here.

Hope this helps.

[DM1]

10 hours ago, augustya said:

what is the best width in smart selection tool to be kept, which can be used in most of the cases, and can be applicable in most cases or how does one decide what width has to be used?

I'm not sure at there is a 'one sizes fits all'. I prefer a larger brush to quickly expand selection in large areas and adjust to smaller brush size to increase sensitivity around the edge selections. Using add and subtract as needed. My preference for hair selection is to use refine and paint around the hair outline. If you output as new layer with mask you can then use a suitable brush to fine tune the mask if required (by painting black/white on the mask).

[augustya]

9 hours ago, ProDesigner said:

The red. What colour was the background that's been removed? It looks to me as though it's a semi transparent mask because the hair has a lot of show-through (of the background) there.

The Red that is showing through the hair only started showing after I used the Refine Selection option, after I had first selected the subject using Smart Selection Too. It is the same red in background that happens after you select Refine Selection. The original background was nowehere near this colour it was light pink colour and was just a wall.

9 hours ago, ProDesigner said:

I suggest you inspect the mask that's been created via solo view - that will reveal much. So you can either refine the mask edge so it shrinks in to remove the red, or you can create a border and overlay a neutralising colour on another layer. It all depends how much it bothers you (see 'important' below)

How do you inspect a Mask Via Solo View? (Sorry Still learning)

Can you also please tell me how do I refine the mask edge (But there was not mask I was using, I had imported my photo from my iPad and was directly working on it. So it was a Layer)

Again no idea how do you create a border and overlay a neutralising colour on another layer ? Any screen recording or visual thing will make understand faster and better. If that is possible.

[augustya]

6 hours ago, DM1 said:

My preference for hair selection is to use refine and paint around the hair outline. If you output as new layer with mask you can then use a suitable brush to fine tune the mask if required (by painting black/white on the mask).

You mean after smart selection use refine selection and paint around the hair outline, but tell you what that thing only has created this reddish effect. when I pressed refine selection I painted around the edges of the hair after watching a a YouTube Video and painting around the edges of the hair in refine selection infact made matter worst. It is only after that this redness started showing.

Output as new layer as in you select this in Refine selection and then in output select as new layer ? is that what you mean ? 

Painting in Black and white is available at the time of selection of Brush ?

[PaulEC]

14 minutes ago, augustya said:

It is the same red in background that happens after you select Refine Selection.

That "red" is not part of the picture, it's just an overlay. You can change it to black, white or transparent if you wish. It just shows which parts of the image are selected. 

In the Output selection try using "New layer with mask".

[augustya]

4 minutes ago, PaulEC said:

That "red" is not part of the picture, it's just an overlay. You can change it to black, white or transparent if you wish. It just shows which parts of the image are selected. 

In the Output selection try using "New layer with mask".

So after using the Smart Selection Tool and then using refine selection tool and then painting around the edges is ok after that after I have finished with the painting you are saying I Change the Output to New Layer with Mask ? is that what you are saying ?

[PaulEC]

Yes!

 

[augustya]

4 minutes ago, PaulEC said:

Yes!

 

One more thing that I wanted to know here is after selecting using the smart selection tool and then going to refine selection and use Paint to Paint around edges of hair, can it also delete some parts of hair ? It happened with me when I was using the Paint Brush in refine selection it kind of started erasing some part of my hair ? is there a rule to use the Painting only in one direction and not use it zig-zag or not go in the reverse direction from what you have started? Or if you paint over the same area 2-3 times it can happen ? is this possible ?

[PaulEC]

If you use the refine matte brush and it doesn't work as you wish you can try again, maybe with a smaller brush. Try just doing a bit at a time, rather than going over the whole image at once. Also you can use the foreground/background brushes to tell the software which is which. (Brush on the area not along the edge as you do with the matte brush.) Anything that is semi-transparent, including fine clumps of hair, may well cause problems, but you may be able to improve this after doing the cut-out.

One other thing, if you don't already, always work on a copy of your picture, rather than the original. Then if you do screw up you can always try again! Also you can use the history panel to undo the cut out and have another go. It does take a bit of practise to get good cut-outs.

[carl123]

@augustya

Can you upload the original image? (i.e. the one in your first post but before any background removal work done on it)

You may get more targeted advice and examples if we can see what you started with

[augustya]

3 minutes ago, carl123 said:

@augustya

Can you upload the original image? (i.e. the one in your first post but before any background removal work done on it)

You may get more targeted advice and examples if we can see what you started with

That is my own personal photograph which you are saying to share it on the Forum ?

[augustya]

11 minutes ago, PaulEC said:

Also you can use the foreground/background brushes to tell the software which is which. (Brush on the area not along the edge as you do with the matte brush.) Anything that is semi-transparent, including fine clumps of hair, may well cause problems, but you may be able to improve this after doing the cut-out.

So if part of anything in the image other than Hair has to be selected as Foreground ? And Hair as Background while refining selection ? I did not understand this. When to select Foreground while brushing and when to select Background ?

[carl123]

3 minutes ago, augustya said:

That is my own personal photograph which you are saying to share it on the Forum ?

Just the bit you have shared already (i.e. the cropped version but with the background intact)

 

[PaulEC]

Anything you want to show (eg the hair/head/body) is the foreground, the part you want to hide/make transparent, so you can replace it, is the background.

[augustya]

5 minutes ago, carl123 said:

Just the bit you have shared already (i.e. the cropped version but with the background intact)

 

Ok here you go…

 

[augustya]

5 minutes ago, PaulEC said:

Anything you want to show (eg the hair/head/body) is the foreground, the part you want to hide/make transparent, so you can replace it, is the background.

So just an example ? after I have selected the subject using the Smart Selection Tool and then when I go to refine selection and start painting around the edges of hair I have to select foreground or background ?

[DM1]

5 minutes ago, augustya said:

So just an example ?

Like this 

[augustya]

10 minutes ago, DM1 said:

Like this

Yes ! This is what I was dying to have a look at. This should give me some clarity. So I see while using the Smart Selection Tool you used a width of 141px or something this is purely based on your individual gut feeling about how much width has to be used ? is it ? And at the same way in Refine Selection you were using a width of 100px so that again is your Gut feeling right ? what would work best in such a scenario ?

And in selection you selected new layer with mask but that again creates a third layer in the Layer section isn't that something undesirable or it does not make any difference ?

[PaulEC]

22 minutes ago, augustya said:

So just an example ? after I have selected the subject using the Smart Selection Tool and then when I go to refine selection and start painting around the edges of hair I have to select foreground or background ?

You don't have to, but sometimes it can help. 

[carl123]

33 minutes ago, augustya said:

So just an example ? after I have selected the subject using the Smart Selection Tool and then when I go to refine selection and start painting around the edges of hair I have to select foreground or background ?

Neither, you leave it set as Matte

[augustya]

So guys I just worked in selecting one Photo and if you have a looked at the left Ear of this picture there is this hazy thing that is showing, looks like my selection has made the left Ear look hazy what could have gone wrong here ? Both the original and agree with picture have been posted.

 

 

 

 

8930A7FB-1341-4750-B846-A6A3607BC4CC.webp

[DM1]

26 minutes ago, augustya said:

So I see while using the Smart Selection Tool you used a width of 141px or something

The smaller the width the more control you have over selection areas. A larger settings covers a bigger area more quickly. So larger for face and head the smaller for edges, or in my case something in between the two. There’s no right or wrong, just trial and error to see what works best for you.
 

26 minutes ago, augustya said:

in Refine Selection you were using a width of 100px so

You want the brush large enough to cover the edge and a bit of the unwanted surroundings.

Generalising: Images with high contrast between the part you want and the unwanted background work best so sometimes adding contrast or using RGB  channels can help. Also the better the image resolution the better the result.

[augustya]

3 hours ago, DM1 said:

The smaller the width the more control you have over selection areas. A larger settings covers a bigger area more quickly. So larger for face and head the smaller for edges, or in my case something in between the two. There’s no right or wrong, just trial and error to see what works best for you.

Hi ! Can you please have a look at my Post just about yours, and can you please tell me what I am doing wrong there ?

[DM1]

12 hours ago, augustya said:

can you please tell me what I am doing wrong there ?

Selections work best with high resolution, high contrast images. Your sample image is around 4mpx, very pixelated and lacking contrast particularly around the left ear. You could select a paintbrush and adjust the mask (paint with black or white) to hide or reveal edges but you won’t get a great result when viewed up close.