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Boolean issues with Add


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Using the new 1.9.0.10 beta, I am trying to add together several expanded former strokes and fills to make one united vector shape. Each time I do so, a large portion of it just disappears. How are we supposed to be doing this aside from tracing the outside with a single pen stroke?
Also, I have to keep switching over from the alternate fill mode to the winding repeatedly because when I grab a part of a fill and pull a node of it over top another, it just creates a negative space where they overlap otherwise. Lastly, we're still getting crazy number of nodes when expanding and dividing strokes
These issues have been brought up for the last few years without a complete fix. stuff like this is in large part what keeps Affinity from being an app I can use exclusively

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Hi @Boldlinedesign,

Do you have any example files you can attach that we can reproduce the issues you are getting please?

Note the Alternate/Fill mode behaviour is the correct behaviour when curves overlap - However there is a known issue that these are not always remembered after a boolean operation.

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Thanks for the file, unfortunately it looks like the previous expand operation has created a lot of bad/dirty geometry - evidenced in your last screenshot with all those nodes. Boolean operations generally perform much better with cleaner geometry. So unfortunately I would suggest cleaning up the excess nodes.

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@Sean P thanks for checking out the file I sent and getting back to me. Can you clarify a little what you mean overall? I understand that if I had fewer overlapping original strokes that were then expanded and divided, the geometry would be cleaner. I understand how to clean up all the excess nodes after a “dirty geometry” divide.... I can do that for the time being, but what about the long term?
I guess my question is, will Affinity be fixing this issue soon? I’ve copied and pasted this very design I sent you into Illustrator CS6 and after deleting the extra overlaps, merged everything with almost perfect success. (There are always a few stray nodes in a design originating in Affinity  that I usually need to go over with  blob tool or break the compound path and delete). I’m hoping your answer on this was not indicative that Affinity has no plans to improve the Boolean operations so even dirty/bad geometry cannot be fixed. If Adobe can do it in CS6 from years ago, what keeps Affinity from accomplishing it?
I love Affinity and I’m not trying to be overly critical. The geometry and Boolean operations seem to have been and remain a major thorn in the side of the development team. I’m hoping your answer does not imply they have given up or settled for lesser results on this crucial aspect. Thanks!

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@Sean P- Sorry to keep asking, but are you able to confirm Affinity still plans to fix this issue with the Boolean operations? Your response gave the potential impression we're just going to have to clean up excess nodes any time there is "dirty geometry". The problem occurs with regular overlaps as well. Excess nodes and node cleanup is required even with simple overlaps of strokes expanded and divided and then added together again (see example image attached) The second image shows a hairline break between two overlapping fills that were divided and added
If there were an Affinity equivalent to the "blob" brush and vector eraser, those often can fill  in an issue quickly or remove a problem section, but my layman's understanding of code development tells me one problem can't be solved without the other being solved as well. I assume a blob brush is really just a set of actions (expand stroke and add) occurring in real time as the brush is used. If the issue occurs when done by the user, it's not going have different results when done as an action.
I'm guessing a "merge' boolean operation with properties like Illustrator's (cookie cutter effect and solution to filling negative spaces of a fill shape) is also not possible until this node issue gets fully resolved.
Right now, if I vector something in Affinity on desktop or on Ipad, there's a limited amount I can do to fix it up natively. I have to copy and paste it over to Illustrator CS6 and merge it there. It solves 90% of the extra modes and then I use the blob brush to cover over and eliminate extra nodes - or I release the shape from being a compound path, erase the erroneous nodes from Affinity and go from there.
I know the boolean operations have been a issue for Affinity for years. Version 1.8 brought some solid improvements and I know the Divide operation has been looked at and improved at least a couple times recently.
I just want to know this is not the end of the road for getting them to work properly and hoping it's not years before they do - thanks!

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Hi Boldlinedesign,

Sorry for the delay in responding.

Previously the Expand Stroke operation were creating a lot of (hundreds of nodes around a curve for example), which is similar to what you've got in your file. This has definitely been improved on and should create cleaner geometry when using the expand stroke now (however this obviously won't fix existing strokes that have been expanded). If you do still find times where you're getting hundreds of nodes post Expand Stroke then please do attach sample files prior to the expand so we can get them logged.

With that said we do have open issues logged with development regarding boolean operations that can either take a long time with lots of geometry, or just seemingly get stuck, along with the Divide operation not being very great. Development are aware of these issues and of course do wish to get them improved. Unfortunately I cannot speak for their priorities however - we just bring these issues to their attention. 

Unfortunately there isn't yet any tools available in Affinity that are like Illustrator's Blob Brush right now, however have you posted anything in the Feature Requests forum regarding similar tools?
 

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@Sean P echoing @fde101, I know I've posted numerous times in the forum for the last few years about the serious need for a blob tool equivalent. I've also been vocal about the issues regarding boolean operations freezing the app and/or creating the massive node overloads and complicated adds. I've suggested several times we could use another boolean operation that accomplishes what Illustrator's
merge" operation does. (cookie cutters overlapping fills, would allow for fast fill color behind an expanded black outline of a character by merging, etc)  true vector eraser, true vector brush support, text warp (contour path and "find and replace" as well but they are now in the 1.9 beta) Those seem pretty universal regardless of design industry. I'd love to see bitmaps like in Adobe and the ability to print separations. We also really need a blend tool. I don't know how to link in another thread topic inside a chat like this, so added a link to one for example.

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/23254-make-blend-tool/

The blend tool was requested in 2016 (I'm sure other threads date back further) and MEB mentions at one point early on that it will be out before the 2.0 release according to the projected roadmap. Year after year, people circle back to ask for an update and there are basically crickets from Affinity on that topic and many others. The roadmap may have added some pressure to the developers at Serif, but it at least told the consumer base were were being listened to and that Affinity is worth the long term investment. There are always more features the consumer base is going to ask for. I'd love to see a symmetry tool, 3d text, smooth tool, vector trace, (screen record - now in 1.9 beta) etc. I can do my professional work without them and so they are low priority in my opinion. I share a common goal with many on here to have a set of tools in the Affinity Designer app that allow us to drop Adobe completely and sell others on that fact. Lower priority to most would be the new ability to share brushes and the like across different computers on the same account, the screen record, the anti-aliasing. Just my opinion.

I know I'm not alone is saying there is a strong perception that Affinity Designer has taken a backseat in priority to the focus on developing Photo further and getting Publisher out on the ipad. I know Affinity wants to "get it right" before shipping a new tool and I understand that. We're in a pandemic year that has slowed production, I get that also. Many of these features are considered basic and are already in other vector apps.
Asking the consumer base to be patient as new features are added is normal and understood, taking 5-6 years or longer to add basic features without keeping the consumer base informed seems to invite criticism and frustration. Surely Serif can understand that adding features at such a slow rate over 6 years is going to discourage the base and end any real passion and momentum the apps carry? Some like myself are holding on to CS6 - so we don't have to pay for an overpriced subscription. I'm spending a lot more time in apps like Corel and Vectorstyler

Some have been more colorful in their anger and frustration than others. I don't think we should be blasting Serif, but I'll keep repeating the same requests as respectfully but bluntly as I can in hopes we are heard. I have convinced several people to buy in to Affinity, I use Affinity whenever I can until missing tools force me to go to other apps to get the job done, I still believe Affinity is the future and will be a better option for most people than Adobe or Corel long term. At the same time I look at new apps like Vectorstyler and marvel at the progress they make in short time. Vectorstyler still lacks a polished and smooth UI and workflow, but it has everything we've collectively been begging Serif for in Affinity Designer. What holds back Affinity from being like Vectorstyler in that regard?


 

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