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richardtomkins

Margin Errors, cause 0.5" offset in printed output

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I came across this bug today. This bug also existed in PagePlus and after a lot of BACK and FORTH you finally fixed it.

Silly me, I should have looked at this earlier. I just tried retrieving the margins from the printer in both Designer and Phota and this bug is in both those applications as well.

I was working on the creation of a stock certificate, using a pre-printed certificate that has a stylish frame that extends 32 mm in from the papers edge. I set the New document margins to 32 mm and kept all my text and graphics inside the margins. My HP K8600 printer has the following fixed margins (area's where the mechanism cannot print), of

  • LEFT: 0.13"
  • RIGHT: 0.13"
  • TOP: 0.13"
  • BOTTOM: 0.47"

The observant will note that 32 mm is equal to 1.25984", thus my Spread Setup with Margins of 32mm all around is well within the mechanical design of my printer.

Now, of course a stock certificate is printed in Landscape, so this should all work, right, NOPE!

I am including images that have margins that are retrieved by the Affinity Publisher application, using the Spread Setup Button, Retentive Margin from Printer.

One image is when I set Spread Setup to Portrait and you will note that the Margin at the bottom of the image occupies more space that the other three margins as this is an exact representation of the printers mechaincal design.

The second image is when I set Spread Setup to Landscape (unchecking Portrait) and you will note that the Margin at the bottom of the image occupies more space that the other three margins and this is COMPLETELY WRONG. The 0.47" margin in the image should be on the far right of the image to accurately reflect the mechanical design of the HP K8600 printer.

This is the exact same behaviour that I reported and you fixed in Serif PagePlus.

The problem with this bug is that it manifests as an offset print in Landscape such that the output in this case overwrites that nice stylish frame on the stock certificate.

Please, urgently, fix this, not only in Publisher, but also in Designer and Photo. Same code, same bug.

I have added two WORD 201 documents with the margins turned on. I also showed the Page Layout Dialog. Word has always worked properly  as expected when it comes to page layout and margins.

I have added two Serif PagePlus documents, and you can handily see that the layour for the MArgins exactly matches that of Word 2010.

 

Correct.thumb.jpg.a0467e1b3741d4322686768a237fb534.jpgWrong.thumb.jpg.3147dea2393b94d35b74bbb797182081.jpg

CorrectWordL.thumb.jpg.7d7a7b078b2e33e9fc8825080b75e61e.jpg

CorrectWordP.thumb.jpg.ca34bb25b76e6b4cd131e593d079513a.jpg

PagePlusP.thumb.jpg.a6bb961076785701ab14598e72fa979e.jpg

PagePlusL.thumb.jpg.ad017dbe5a567270dfc1b1ec2ff68d9c.jpg

 

 

 

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Sorry, your post leaves me a bit puzzled.

I've just set up a document in APub with margins of 32mm on each side. Works perfectly fine in versions .404 and .422. No matter whether it is landscape or portrait.

Could you share the .afpub document that causes the trouble?

 

 

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Look at each picture of each correctly (Word 2010 and PagePlus X9) oriented margins. These margins were set with Retrieve Margin from Printer.

Now, look at the Affinity Publisher (APub???) layout. These margins were set with Retrieve Margin from Printer. The 0.47" that the printer cannot print on is on the right side of the layout, it should be on the left side of the layout. This means, that when I set the margins, each of them to 32mm, even though they visually look fine on the computer monitor, when printed, the printing is displaced by 0.47" on the printed output. Worse, when I fiddle the margins in an attempt to accomdate this bug, the actual printed text and graphics disappear from the printed output for a band that is approximately 0.47".

This bug exists in All three Windows Affinity products, Publisher, Photo and Designer.

If your printer is mechanically designed so that it prints perfectly to the same margin on every side of a page, you will not see this bug when you print. On the other hand, as my printer does duplexing, that 0.47" unprintable area of the page is reserved from flipping the page. The HP Printer Driver tells the application about this when the application requests information about the printer capabilities.

So, if you have a printer that does duplexing, and does not have the same margins (these are physical limitations of the printer mechanism) do the following,

  1. Start Word and retrieve the margins from the printer for Portrait and Landscape orientations.
  2. Do the same with all of the new Affinity applications, and see the difference

As for the file that I see this on, it won't do you any good to have it, the moment you open it, you will end up with the margins from your default printer and I doubt that your printer is an HP K8600 that does duplexing.

All I did was start a NEW... document, page size of Letter (ANSI A) and the Retrieve Margin from Printer.

If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll do some printouts of each, take photographs and put them up.

Oh and the 32mm, I mention that only to indicate that this should have eliminated any influence of the printer design, but as the applications do not do the calculations properly, I end up with displace output.

Apub.thumb.jpg.f945afb77748a51ed0a4372450affe61.jpg

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Here are output files from each application, in both orientations. I used Export for the Affinity and Serif application and Save as PDF for Microsoft Word 2010.

In each case, in the creation of each file, I used the menu choice NEW... and I Retrieve Margin from Printer in each case.

I overlayed the margins with a 3 point frame to show you where the actual margins are.

The actual page edges are somewhat visible, they appear to be very fine light grey lines around the outside.

Microsfot Word 2010 and Serif PagePlus X9 get the margins correctly, although there are other nasty bugs inside PagePlus, like forgetting the page orientation when you reopen the Publication Setup menu.

WordLOK.pdf

WordPOK.pdf

DesignerLBad.thumb.jpg.ab898ea729a465dc20387db24ccb60db.jpg

DesignerPOK.thumb.jpg.01abe944f4d327e614fd30a6310f57cd.jpg

PagePlusLOK.thumb.jpg.0e2e1c753306638f505f7dec6b6e6d7d.jpg

PagePlusPOK.thumb.jpg.95ea7c5777670a8ef4d717423e462cfd.jpg

PhotoLBad.thumb.jpg.ee17f7fee481b0189ced797a106b0906.jpg

PhotoPOK.thumb.jpg.23798c9a71eda947f50bd25a08487c65.jpg

PublisherLBad.thumb.jpg.17c01781ce9ea1a8a092b7aa109c97b1.jpg

PublisherPOK.thumb.jpg.aaa5896a3b257ab43b4d21cda6e01cf2.jpg

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Well, I might still miss the point as I am in trouble to understand what you want really to achieve here, but perhaps these to workarounds help you:

  • Create a new document with orientation set to landscape and margins set manually (you can even create a preset for that in case you need this more than once)

or (if you want to enjoy the convenience to retrieve the well known printer margins automatically)

  • Create a new document with orientation set to portrait and then rotate the canvas by 90° while working on the design.

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Understanding this is not very hard.

On the images above, click on the first image and then use the right arrow to sequence through each image.

OBSERVE WHERE THE 0.47" PRINTER MARGIN IS LOCATED RELATIVE TO THE PAGE OUTPUT.

IN EACH AFFINITY PRODUCT, THE 0.47" PRINTER MARGIN IS IN TH WRONG PLACE.

THIS CAUSES THE LANDSCAPE PRINTED OUTPUT TO BE OFFSET BY 0.47".

No matter what the margin settings are, the printed output is offset by 0.47'

Attempting to compensate, by subtracting margin on one side and adding margin on the other side does not work. At a certain point, you exceed the algorithm of the printer driver and the printed output gets cut off.

The bug is not readily apparent on a monitor, except by retrieving the margins from the printer, and then highlighting the margins with a frame as I have done.

What I want to achieve is a 32mm margin, on each side of a page and have the printed output land centered vertically and horizontally in the middle of the page.

This bug prevents that from happening and twiddling with the margins as a "workaround" does not work.

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Here are four pictures of print from Publisher, Designer, Photo and PagePlus.

Although the PagePlus text says that the box is centered exactly, that's not quite right, the programmer never was able to fix the output properly. PagePlus could be fiddled to make its output prints properly without cutting off the output and I used it mostly for business cards. I used Word, Scribus, Expression Design and Inkscape for most everything else, documents, posters, handbills, menus and the like.

I had been hoping that with the Affinity grouping of products that I would get a set of tools to work with that had a common look and feel (User Interface), all 64 bit, so memory usage on my systems was optimized, and a more seamless workflow. This bug prevents me from working with these products, and maybe they are geared more towards a retired hobbyist use rather than a professional use.

As you can see, even though all the margins were set to 50mm, the output is offset by 10mm. Do you follow now?

This margin of error, is totally unacceptable.

 

00001.thumb.JPG.f05bf8dcd9529313da5f806ecd2e8187.JPG00027.thumb.JPG.984e1f1b1a44147bbe8289a44c23bd56.JPG00028.thumb.JPG.26139eb74524596d5a96bf2af3895c8e.JPG00029.thumb.JPG.aec38d69db3f1f40df5ffae6d7222428.JPG

 

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I see what you mean. And I tried to replicate the problem at my end - but I've failed. With two printers (Samsung CLX-3305 and Epson ET-3750) I get exactly what is requested.

When I retrieve the margins fromt the printer (Samsung, 4,3mm non-printable area on each side) I end up with a print that has margins of 4 to 5mm on each side, when I set the margins manually to 32mm on each side I get a print with margins 31 to 33mm (within the expected range of mechanical error).

Additionally I exported the designs to PDF. And they show correct margins as well (even the print made from Adobe Reader ist correct).

Perhaps it is more an issue of the specific printer driver than AfPub?

 

 

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Good, now you see it.

Now you have also identified why you cannot reproduce the problem.

Your printers have mechanically physical margins of 4.3mm all around.

My printer has one physical margin that is 0.47" on one side and 0.13" on the other three sides. My printer does duplex and this 0.47" margin is an unprintable area as this is used by the duplexing unit when handling the paper.

No, it is not a problem with my printer driver, it is a problem with Affinity.

They had the same problem with PagePlus, and after a lot of back and forth they finally figured it out and fixed it, but not perfectly. This is acknowledged in their PagePlus forum.

If this was a problem with my printer driver, then the problem would exist with the hundreds of other software applications that I use and print with on a regular basis and that is not the case.

This problem only happens with Affintiy Publisher, Designer and Photo and I WANT IT FIXED.

 

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Having extensively documented a showstopper bug in Publisher, Designer and Photo, will Affinity get right on it and fix it?

Other than this forum, does Affinity have an alternative Bug Tracking system?

When will you contact me directly?

Do you have a documented formal bug tacking process?

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I tried to reproduce this on my system and noticed that if you change from portrait to landscape orientation, you need re-retrieve the margins to get the updated values (which is clearly a designed behavior but perhaps something that could cause a warning and a request if re-retrieving of printer margins is wanted).That may explain why you at some instance got the wrong bottom margin in a landscape orientated page layout, or wrong right margin in portrait-orientated layout.

But I could also produce a couple of times an error where correct margin values were read, but either used for reversed sides (top and bottom reversed, as well as left and right though this does not normally show since the values are typically identical), or for reversed orientations, even when changing page orientation or paper size, and re-retrieving the printer margins. This could be fixed only by restarting the app. Unfortunately I cannot tell exact steps to reproduce this error though at one point it appeared to be related to changing the paper size. Perhaps it is related to "remembering" the last orientation but failure to read the current real setting and simply just toggling its value. But when the error was on, I could consistently create new documents where the large margin was on the right side with portrait documents, and on the bottom side with landscape documents, even if I each time retrieved margin values from the printer driver.

With printers that I could test, featuring a bottom margin larger than the top one (e.g. Canon Pro 9000 MkII), changing the page orientation to landscape always (and correctly) caused the right margin to become the largest one (so that the printed image is rotated 90 degrees clockwise). It seems that with your HP printer, the left margin should become the largest so the printer seems to handle image rotation / paper feeding differently, and Affinity apps might fail to read this feature correctly.

But I wonder if the misaligned image on the paper could actually be a problem related to sheet feed orientation, front/back tray / duplex print settings, as the combination of settings can easily get complex (many printer drivers also support image rotation at print time)? Applications also typically use app-wide settings so what works ok in the context of one app is not automatically carried for another app. You did not mention how the actual printing with the wrong offsets was done (i.e., from which app, directly from Affinity Publisher, or by printing the PDF and if the latter, from which program, Adobe Acrobat, browser plug-in, etc.)

If you export to PDF from Publisher, is the additional (or reversed, as it seems) offset shown there, too (the Affinity examples were jpgs instead of pdfs so this could not be checked)? This would be  strange since pdf exports should basically be device independent and not include any adjustments based on the current printer driver (repositioning and resizing should not even be possible at pdf export, but only when printiing the document). It should be possible to print any artwork on any sheet size without causing the print image to be resized or repositioned: what does not fit, will simply be trimmed off. I tested exporting oversized art and the test pdfs were created correctly disregarding the current printer, just trimming off the extra without repositioning and resizing so at least in the current version (beta 1.7.2.422) this seems to work as expected.

EDIT: Could reproduce the problem with reversed portrait/landscape margins once again, this time it happened after changing the default printer. This might have invoked the previous occurrences of this error, as well, as I have been constantly changing the default printer to test different printers.

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Let me tell everyone this.

I use Word 2010, Corel PaintSHop Pro, PowerPoint, Excel, Visio, DesignSpark PCB, DesignSpark PCB, Scribus, LibreOffice, Nikon Capture NX-D, Nikon ViewNX, Inkscape, IrFanVIEW and many more applications. Each and every one of these applications correctly and accurately print their Landscape and Portrait output on my HP K8600 Printer.

Not one single Affinity product, not Publisher, not Photo and not Designer has ever printed a Landscape output correctly or accurately.

Obviously, Serif / Affinity have acknowledged that there is a problem and logged it.

As I had previously indicated, I went through the same back and forth over an extend period of time with the exact same problem in Serif PagePlus. Serif almost completely fixed the problem in PagePlus and at the time, as I did not have any other Serif applications was not able to determine if their other products also had the same flaw.

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I have no doubts that Affinity apps have problems with reading the correct printer margins. I just installed HP OfficeJet K8600 Pro printer driver on FILE port and made it the default printer, and got crazy margins when using Affinity Publisher (no matter if using the release version or the latest beta).

 printmargins_apub.jpg.212ac990b6bda6619384a1f5881c7e7e.jpg

Here are the values when read with latest Word (which are pretty close to ones you mention):

printmargins_word.jpg.70771124478787134e103afa2e6601a4.jpg

I also tested CorelDRAW2017 and it showed the printable area similarly as Word. I do not know where APub gets such strange values -- perhaps it is related to having the printer driver installed without it being connected to a physical printer. But this is not an issue for Word or CorelDRAW. Interestingly InDesign and QuarkXPress show the largest margin on the right side of the landscape oriented paper, not on the left side.

Anyway, my interest was mainly in finding out whether the additional offset is added when you print directly from Affinity Publisher (e.g., when having e.g. a perfectly centered object with e.g. 50 mm white space to all edges of the page), as that should never happen (even if objects overlap the page edge) unless some kind of re-positioning or scaling is requested using the printer settings; and, secondly, whether this kind of offset also appears in a pdf exported from Publisher. These are much more serious problems than inability to read the printer margins of a specific printer, especially as the margins were correctly read from all physical printers that i tested (printer margins are basically useful only to get and show the printable area to avoid placing objects in that area)..

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I did some further testing and noticed the following:

1) The problem with strange margins when using the HP printer driver in FILE port was fixed after closing and restarting Publisher. After that, the margins are read as 3.5 left, 12,4 right, 3,3 top and 3.4 bottom, when using a landscape layout. This is pretty close to what is read by other applications, except that the left and right margins are reversed in landscape mode.

2)  I used EscapeE to view the prn files produced from APub and  got similar results as shown above in this post:

prn_from_apub.thumb.jpg.7c6bafb1613cdb4d4ee7aab0e8c69e8b.jpg

Part of the problems shown here may be EscapeE related but the whole job is horizontally misplaced and the offset is clear. As EscapeE shows, there is some confusion related to sheet size (printable image showing as if it were on the "wrong side" of the sheet), and it seems it is the duplex print-feature that is causing problems here. This printer seems to handle duplex printing by placing the printable images side by side.

When the same graphics is printed from InDesign, the following is output:

 prn_from_id.thumb.jpg.3cfb0257f297a7efea57c90e2639aad2.jpg

The "duplex" sheet size shows here, too, and some additional trimming seems to happen, but the printed image has not been repositioned and appears to be centered. 

3) What however worked ok was exporting the job to pdf and then printing it from Adobe Acrobat (in this case as a PCL print file). See below the output opened in EjectE (the margin frame is in wrong position, and indicates the readings made in Affinity Publisher):

prn_from_pdf.jpg.832571864e8ccdb6afb09be61271c6ca.jpg

This particular printer seems to be a bit of a challenge, as similar problems do not happen when using e.g. Dell 3130cn, which is a duplexing printer, see below the PCL print file created from Affinity Publisher and opened in EjectE:

prn_from_apub_dell.jpg.b5e3101ed546282fdef601d72136552e.jpg

On a general note it is a good idea (and often an easy workaround when experiencing problems) to export to pdf and then print the pdf from Adobe Acrobat or some other app that can handle different printing needs. This is recommendable especially when printing anything that requires any accuracy, or has some complexity, also when using InDesign, and especially when printing onto a non-PostScript printer.

 

test_margins.afpub

test_margins.pdf

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Mr. Lagarto, I consider your input to be a contribution that confirms my bug report.

I don't do pissing into the wind during a blue moon. Workarounds are at best problematic, and usually worse.

All Affinity products (Publisher, Photo and Designer) on Windows, produce this bug.

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>Mr. Lagarto, I consider your input to be a contribution that confirms my bug report.

As long as producing a print file with the actual HP printer driver installed on FILE port and viewing the result with EjectE simulates accurately the real thing, then yes: I could reproduce the unwanted horizontal offset when printing directly from Affinity Publisher.

But when I did some further experiments, I noticed that outputs from other applications (InDesign, Acrobat and Word) also showed some peculiarities, as can be seen below (the first one is from Acrobat, now corrected, as in the previous post I mistakenly printed the job in portrait mode, and the second one from Word):

prn_from_pdf_fixed.jpg

prn_from_word.jpg

Both these screenshots, and also the one related to print made from InDesign (in my previous post), show that more is trimmed from the bottom of the landscape oriented artwork than should be, according to the specs of the printer. Presentation of the print media (Letter sheet in this case) is also inaccurate, and does not show e.g. the area that is clipped from the left, so it is impossible to say based on these screenshots whether outputs are fully centered on the sheet, as they should be. But it is clear from the outputs that Affinity Publisher prints the job differently and causes an extra horizontal offset that does not happen when printing from other applications.

As for my comment on workaround by producing a PDF, it seems that it could work in this particular case, and printing via PDF is a de facto industy standard. Also, applications like InDesign give a direct warning against using settings of the printer driver when printing directly from within application, yet it is often necessary to get the job correctly printed, so in practice it is a better idea to produce a pdf file and then use Acrobat for outputting it onto the printer. The print files for commercial printer have also been produced via exporting to PDF (rather than using the printing interface to create a postscript file and then use Distiller to have the pdf file) for well over a decade.

But I can understand that this may be unpractical in office context, and it is clear that Affinity apps have problems when printing directly on to this particular printer.  

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Not to belittle your efforts, but I have real physical print output from 40 or more applications that all work properly. In addition, I submitted photographic evidence of multple physical print output to substantiate my bug report.

What is,

I am reporting print margin anomalies with Affinity products. Should you wish to report print margin anomalies with other products, I strongly encourage you to contact those product manufacturers directly as I'm sure they do not read this Affinity BUG REPORT FORUM for Windows.

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11 hours ago, richardtomkins said:

Not to belittle your efforts, but I have real physical print output from 40 or more applications that all work properly. In addition, I submitted photographic evidence of multple physical print output to substantiate my bug report.

My point has not been in trying to invalidate your bug report. It is obvious that Affinity apps behave erratically with your printer, when reading its printable area and outputting in landscape mode. This could be confirmed by reproducing these errors by using the actual printer driver to produce the same data that is sent to the physical device, and EjectE, which is a PCL print file viewer.

My sole interest was in finding out why this happens and whether it is an isolated problem, as I am evaluating Affinity apps for professional use and accordingly things like the application's ability to create print-ready PDFs for commercial printing is important for me. And while its direct-print capabilites are secondary for me, it is nevertheless good to see whether these kinds of output problems are generic.

EjectE may well have bugs of its own, or incapabilities, and therefore it cannot be used reliably to evaluate the print quality of any particular printer, but it was useful as it could be used to compare outputs of different printers from different programs, and to illustrate that this is not a problem that is related e.g. to duplex printing or asymmetric margins in general (we have such printers at our office), and more specifically, that this is a problem that can be avoided when using PDF print workflow (which is what I use anyway for all graphic jobs, no matter which software I use)..

I can understand that these are not things that are important to you, but I believe they may be of interest to people who are seriously evaluating Affinity apps for professional use..

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Any luck. tech stuff hurts my head. I don't know if I am having the same issue. All I want is to export my pdf file so that I can upload it in amazon KDP and I don't know if I am doing it right with margins. I have tried so many different ways. Either I have a very large margin, or it seems like its shifted out of place. I lined my images to the blue line but then after export and import to KDP. This is what I get. The blue lines are affinity and the dotted line is Amazon KDP. I make coloring books and it looks so out whack. If this is not the same problem as you having I hope you find your answer and I will keep looking.

78942500_10159089187862067_4107142741148827648_n.jpg

79237238_10159089187867067_6695126129176477696_n.jpg

79425126_10159089190252067_4023669995916492800_n.jpg

79337765_10159089190257067_5549733749484158976_n.jpg


"I dream of painting and then I paint my dream." - Vincent Van Gogh

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I would say that this is the same problem.

Something that might help, is to set your Windows DEFAULT Printer to be "Microsoft XPS Document Writer", which appears to have Left, Right, Top and Bottom Margins of 0 when retrieved from the Printer. Then, set your Margins to what you expect to use on the Amazon KDP output. Then export the the resultant file as PDF and cross your fingers.

Of course, this is all based on the assumption that even though they cannot properly write code to work with the Default Printer Driver, the PDF POSTSCRIPT code that they generate is OK.

 

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