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Gary_F

Qs from former Photoshop user

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16 minutes ago, owenr said:

I already responded to that by saying that the devs haven't prevented us from having multiple open documents, so I cannot understand why you think they mght be trying to discourage us from opening multiple documents which happen to have similar, or even identical, content.

I have in no way suggested the developers are trying to prevent or discourage us from opening as many documents as we want.

 

I am talking about if or how a Duplicate feature could be implemented in Affinity that avoids compromising its memory efficiency (as PS is known to do). If you have any thoughts on that, I would like to hear them.


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4; macOS Mojave 10.14.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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17 minutes ago, owenr said:

I said that you have suggested that the developers might be trying to discourage the simultaneous opening of duplicate documents in particular, and I pointed out the irrationality of that suggestion.

Not what I said or suggested. There is a difference between opening saved documents & duplicating one in memory without saving it. I am asking how the latter could be done without compromising memory efficiency. Do you see the difference?


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4; macOS Mojave 10.14.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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7 minutes ago, owenr said:

You didn't realize that, when a previously saved document is opened, it is loaded into memory.

Not necessarily. The developers have not shared the details of how it works, but they have said they rely on mipmaps for quickly rendering images to the screen. So it is possible not all of a document's image data is always loaded into memory at the same time.

 

I don't know if it works similarly on Windows but the Mac OS windowing system can move image data out of memory when a window's content does not need to be updated, leaving it only in the screen buffer. Recent Mac OS versions also use memory compression for inactive data & according to Activity Monitor AP does support that as well.


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4; macOS Mojave 10.14.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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This conversation has gone a long way off topic. O.o

Thank you to everyone who responded to my original questions. A few are now resolved while others have resulted in new feature requests, namely:

  • "Duplicate" function from the Document menu
  • Multiple enhancements to working with windowed images (Photo really sucks in windowed mode)
  • Different types of pixel dithering for exporting GIF/PNG images

 

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1 hour ago, Gary_F said:

This conversation has gone a long way off topic. O.o

Thank you to everyone who responded to my original questions. A few are now resolved while others have resulted in new feature requests, namely:

  • "Duplicate" function from the Document menu
  • Multiple enhancements to working with windowed images (Photo really sucks in windowed mode)
  • Different types of pixel dithering for exporting GIF/PNG images

 

People do ramble sometimes. Still. a lot of things get discovered.

 

As for your feature request. For the first one, for now why not experiment with Snapshots?

 

A slightly different way of working but one click and you have a duplicate document. Here I am working with four duplicate documents at once, each one is completely different variation. (I was too lazy to name them)

snaps.png.3b04b44cf15eaa22aaa210f902007049.png

 

Turn either into a separate document with one click. (New document From Snapshot)

new.png.7f7e42a4bf5b393440e716322bd670da.png

 

Or a flattened image with one click.(New Layer from Snapshot)

layers.png.8417f32ea3e22ddc731491fd582a98ce.png

 

That is far fewer clicks than Photoshop ? i.e. just one or two,.It does everything you want, and more and requires less clicking. 

 

All the duplicates are in one place (in one file), so it makes them easy to keep track of..In fact, each Photo document becomes a complete duplicate file, creation and management system in one.

 

Personally, I think that is far better than unsaved duplicates scattered here there and everywhere.

 

It does require being willing to learn a new technique. I know it's hard to let go, I struggled at first, but then, age is my excuse ;)

 


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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Hi Toltec. I'm still counting 5 mouse clicks to duplicate an image in Photo using Snapshots, without flattening.

The "new layer from snapshot" isn't the same as Photoshop's "flatten image" which merges ALL layers into just 1 layer which is what I want.

Now that I've turned my back on Adobe CC, I need to adapt if I'm to make the most from the alternative software such as Affinity Photo. (Tricky when your muscles have learnt what to do automatically after 20 years on the same software!) But if something isn't as efficient or effective as what I'm used to I will submit requests to the developers. It doesn't hurt, they just ignore it if they don't like it.

I spent 2 days researching alternative software to the Adobe CC suite. Turns out there's lots of options that are either free or under $100 and you actually keep the software forever! Remember those days! LOL! I'm looking forward to Affinity Publisher but I get the feeling a solid Windows release is 2 years away. The Mac version will probably be released sooner to make an attack on the Mac dominated DTP industry.

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Hi Gary

 

How many clicks do you count these as, and how many less is it in PS?

 

Document > Create Snapshot  and then press Return.

 

To Flatten or create a Merged Layer  is just Document > Flatten or Layer > xxx (choose the snapshot) from New layer from snapshot.

 

If you do this a lot, you can assign shortcut to Create Snapshot. Example, Ctrl + /   Assign a shortcut to Flatten too, such as Ctrl + # (I think Flatten is what you actually want, not Merge Visible or New Layer)

 

So, Ctrl + / then Return (makes the snapshot) Ctrl + # (flattens the document). I'm sorry, but I just don't see how that could be done any quicker or easier, no way can that be considered more than three presses or five, respectively.

 

And take into account that you will have to manage the PS style "duplicate" file. Save it, open the filer, name it and each file variant then has to be managed and saved separately. Not to mention found when you need them later, especially with your time stamp issues. If they are snapshots in the existing document you don't have to go through any of that, Photo has managed them all for you. Just press Ctrl + S to save. Potentially a big time saver, especially if you have three or more variants.

 

The original layers can all be recovered if you need (Restore Snapshot) and everything is in one file. So your concerns about having separate files all over the place have been solved. If you do want to split them off, just create a New Document from Snapshot, or of course, export as a JPEG or whatever.

 

Actually, one thing that I think is clever in Photo (maybe in PS too?) assign a shortcut and the shortcut appears in the menu. I know it's only a simple thing and you know what they say about simple things . . . :D

short.png.3779904fde8ece7288535a8c1e2c900c.png

 

 

If you want Flatten (Document > Flatten). With Flatten document you end up with all the layers a single layer and just that. Merge Visible makes a single merged image layer above the existing layers.

 


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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23 minutes ago, owenr said:

The most interesting thing about this thread is that we have two long-standing members of the forum community who are absolutely determined to convert the OP to their way of doing things instead of accept that the OP has considered their suggestions but still wishes to have his preferred workflow made more efficient in the Affinity apps.

 

 

 

Well, not really, it's about the now. Surely it's better to offer a perfectly workable solution that works now, rather than requesting a feature that may not appear for years, if ever ?

 

There are a few thing that I would like to see in AP now (this was always the same when using PS) but if not available, I use/used the next best option or adapt my way or working. It's no good in any sort of commercial environment not doing the job because it requires five clicks instead of three. Hardly professional. (I'm not suggesting Gary wouldn't or isn't)

 

Personally, I think it's great to have as many options as possible. Everybody has their own preferred way of working but sometimes you have to think "outside the box". I come from an era (in the early days of Photoshop) when less than a quarter of the current options were there. But in a professional environment, the job had to be done! So that meant using the best method available now (or then).

 

So, use what is there, request the feature and change to using that method when, or if, it appears.

 

BTW. I don't know if you have ever tried to get Adobe to put a new feature in Photoshop ? 


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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Hi Toltec. I'm still counting 5 clicks to duplicate a document.

  1. Document menu (Not sure if you have to click this on a Mac, but you do on Windows)
  2. Add snapshot
  3. OK
  4. Select name of snapshot
  5. New document from snapshot

I've assigned Alt+S to add snapshot (as you suggested) which brings it down to 4 steps, or 6 if we include Flatten. I won't knit pick that it's still 2 more steps than PS. I'm grateful that you've shown me how to achieve the closest equivalent of PS's duplicate function and I'll use that. If Serif decide to duplicate the duplicate function of PS in the future then all the better, but it's no longer the hurdle for me that it was before I posted the question.

I'm trying to work in tabbed mode now since the implementation of windowed mode is horrific to be honest. When I add "new document from snapshot", or create a new document from New, it zooms in to the image rather than give me a 100% view as default. I work a lot with web graphics so images are usually small. Am I missing a preference option not to "zoom image to fill screen"? Thanks.

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5 minutes ago, owenr said:

 

That's what I did on the first page of the thread! Go back and look at it.

 

 

 

Yes, you're right Owen. You were the first to suggest a working alternative to duplicate a document. Thank you.

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5 minutes ago, owenr said:

 

That's what I did on the first page of the thread! Go back and look at it.

 

Ah, so you could be added to the list of "two long-standing members of the forum community who are absolutely determined to convert the OP to their way of doing things" ? :D

 

It is not 100% accurate, you used snapshots to make a duplicate document in a "convoluted way". I have been pointing out that there is no need to make a duplicate document, Snapshots are an alternative solution. 

 

Also, I have been working hard, trying to get the number of clicks down.

 

Stop being "so argumentative in this thread". (I've been waiting to get that one in) xD


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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19 minutes ago, Gary_F said:

Hi Toltec. I'm still counting 5 clicks to duplicate a document.

  1. Document menu (Not sure if you have to click this on a Mac, but you do on Windows)
  2. Add snapshot
  3. OK
  4. Select name of snapshot
  5. New document from snapshot

I've assigned Alt+S to add snapshot (as you suggested) which brings it down to 4 steps, or 6 if we include Flatten. I won't knit pick that it's still 2 more steps than PS. 

 

OK, fair enough. Are you a very slow clicker then ? ;)


Windows PCs. Photo and Designer, latest non-beta versions.

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1 hour ago, Gary_F said:

I'm still counting 5 clicks to duplicate a document.

  1. Document menu (Not sure if you have to click this on a Mac, but you do on Windows)
  2. Add snapshot
  3. OK
  4. Select name of snapshot
  5. New document from snapshot

Just a few things to consider if you are experimenting with snapshots:

 

• An alternative to creating a keyboard shortcut for the Add Snapshot step is to use the Add Snapshot button in the Snapshots Studio panel. I prefer this because it is one less keyboard shortcut I have to remember. It also frees up the key combination to do something else.

 

• If you are not going to name the snapshot with something descriptive (never a bad idea to do so) you can tap the return key (at least on Macs) to accept the default date stamp name instead of clicking OK. Using the return key, with or without naming the snapshot, allows you to leave the mouse pointer in the panel for steps 4 & 5, which may save a little time.

 

• If you want a flattened version, it won't save any clicks, but you can take a snapshot of the unflattened version, flatten the document, & then take another snapshot of that (which I name "Flat" or something similar to make it easier to find later).

 

• Using the Restore Snapshot button in the panel, you can quickly switch to any snapshot in two steps, one to select the snapshot & the other to click the button. This also does not require much mouse pointer movement, if that matters to you.

 

• If a "marching ants" selection is active when you take a snapshot, it will be included in the snapshot. This makes it easy to experiment with different effects confined to the selection without the need to save the selection as a spare channel or to a file.


Affinity Photo 1.8.4, Affinity Designer 1.8.4, Affinity Publisher 1.8.4; macOS Mojave 10.14.6 iMac (27-inch, Late 2012); 2.9GHz i5 CPU; NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M; 8GB RAM
Affinity Photo 
1.8.4.186 & Affinity Designer 1.8.4.4 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 13.3.1

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10 hours ago, owenr said:

 

 

It would be one keyboard shortcut (at least it would be on a Mac) if the devs implement the command :D

 

Bingo! :D

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