Got DrawPlus X6 on Mac. Reasons to change???

[JohnMcK]

Maybe the question is a bit early because I have not really tried Affinity yet.

 

The question is: do I need Affinity? I am interested in all your suggestions.

 

I use DrawPlus, PhotoPlus and MoviePlus in my work as a teacher because my learners can afford to buy the software they learn on. For personal use I work with Adobe CS on Mac, but for scale drawings I use DrawPlus also running on the Mac inside a Parallels virtual machine running Windows 7 on the Mac. I can cut and paste between Windows and Mac OS.

 

Why should I go to all the trouble of learning to use a new app at my age???

 

Your thoughts please . . .

 

 

JohnMcK

[MattP]

Hi John,

 

a ) You didn't mention your age ;)

 

b ) Your students would need to have a Mac in order to use Affinity, so this could be a non-starter anyway?

 

c ) If your students do have Macs then isn't it dramatically cheaper for them to use Affinity than having to buy Parallels and a copy of DrawPlus - both of which cost much more than Affinity?

 

d ) Being a teacher, shouldn't one of your criteria really be about which would be better for your students to learn?

 

Affinity Designer is dramatically faster than DrawPlus, works nicely on your Mac and has some new ideas of its own that mean you get a nicer experience and hopefully you'll be more inclined to just play around and be creative. The results you get from all the operations in Affinity will be much better than those from DrawPlus. However, DrawPlus is at least 13 versions into its development, so is significantly more mature - for that you can read: It has a lot more tools and functions. That isn't the same as saying you can do more in it. It's the same as saying it can do more for you. If you're unsure if you can be bothered to learn a new app, then the truth is that you will probably get frustrated that feature X is missing in and then regret spending your time on this new challenge. However, if you fancy trying something new and seeing where it leads then you may find you can achieve what you want to and have a lot of fun on the way - and at the same time find out that you've actually learnt something new without thinking about it.

 

The easiest way to see is by just downloading the free trial - there's no strings attached and you get 10 days to see if you're still sat at the computer enjoying it by the time the trial ends. Can't say fairer than that, can we? ;)

 

Thanks,

Matt

[JohnMcK]

thx for the comments Matt . . . I think I should have explained my situation more clearly, so I'll answer your a,b,c points in the same order at the end of this post.

Before I do, I'll explain what I hoped to get from starting this thread . . . I want to know what other people have discovered and what frustrates them. I want to know what I've missed.

I also want to know where Affinity sits on the scale between cheapo imaging apps and Photoshop/Illustrator. An example of where Affinity might find a niche could be that neither of the last 2 expensive apps I just mentioned are any use for scale drawing and planning. Obviously I don't expect Affinity to compete with AutoCAD (which costs £3600btw) but that very fact might make it the right solution for a lot of people.

 

I've downloaded the Affinity trial version and spent about 2 hours on it. I quite like it and I'll almost certainly buy it for personal interest at least (shd I wait till version 2 tho?)

Here are a couple of my thoughts and a wish list for the future:

 

- "Persona"??? OK, I'll learn the new terminology and use it, but aren't they just Raster Mode or Vector Workspace? I do like the fact that these modes are combined into a single application though.

 

- I like some of the node controls for shapes, but there seems to be more control of shapes in DrawPlus. Also, shearing by pulling the middle node of an edge was really useful to me Cancel that . . . it's there in Affinity as well

 

- How about Affinity being able to open DrawPlus or PhotoPlus files? (and vice versa)

 

- I'd like a studio tab for object properties. I use that a lot in DrawPlus.

 

- In the not-too-distant future, Raster Mode Persona will have to have Mesh Warping and other deform tools.

 

- Some of the tools in DrawPlus like Blend, Roughen, Envelope and Perspective wd be quite useful in the Vector Persona

 

- Further into the future I wd like to be able to extrude a 2D shape to create a 3D object (but DrawPlus doesn't have that either)

 

These are just a few thoughts to get the ball rolling. At first glance I like Affinity quite a lot, but I don't think it's ready for my training room yet.

Let's see what other people can suggest . . . .

 

 

 

Matt, these lines shd clear up the points I didn't explain properly the first time.

a} my age is only important because I'm getting lazy about learning new tricks. I'm 62 and retire in 4 years' time so, where I used to enjoy diggin the bones out of new apps and upgrades, now I'm becoming a bit lazy

 

b} there are windows machines and macs in our learning suites

 

c} In our main computer room I have a 20 user license for the Serif software we use on the windows machines. It works out at around £10 ($16) per app per desk. More importantly, any student using a Serif app in their accredited learning can buy the same version for £10 by quoting our educational license number on a Serif order form.

 

d} I believe that what Serif has to offer is pretty good for my learners and that's why I proposed it more than 10 years ago. I teach digital IT courses at several levels, and the learners cover Video, Audio, Design & Imaging, Web, Drawing for Planning and so on, but they are working at vocational level. Serif apps tend to have a look and use terminology similar to industry standard softwares, so they make a perfect introduction to several digital IT topics. The Plus apps also have a feel in common. That's useful when learners have to work with a range of apps.

Up to a third of my students will progress to degree level so, someone who hopes to work in draughting for example may have done Drawing and Planning with me using DrawPlus, but at uni they will undoubtedly specialise in using AutoCAD. However they will also be able to feel their way around Photoshop or Final Cut from the time they spent using PhotoPlus and MoviePlus.

 

 

JohnMcK

[peter]

How about Affinity being able to open DrawPlus or PhotoPlus files? (and vice versa)

 

Yes, this has been mentioned by me else where, but the answer was this:

• open up the document in DP
• export as a PDF
• open up AD
• import into new document

I still don't understand why they can open up files from Adobe, but not from the same office block. The given answer left me a bit flat.

 

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/2362-does-this-support-serif-draw-plus-x6-files/

 

However, AD X3 has got to be pretty slick, eh? Only a decade or so to go.

[Dave Harris]

Importing PDF was essential because so many apps can export it. Adobe Illustrator files then needed no extra work because they contain PDF. The other formats we import are either standard, like SVG, or popular Mac apps. Because Affinity is a Mac app itself, importing from Windows apps is lower priority no matter how popular they are.

 

It's true the DrawPlus team are in the same building, but having that access is a mixed blessing. It would raise expectations of what our import should be capable of. Meeting those expectations would be difficult because our feature set is different, and even where we have features in common their implementations are different. In some cases we wouldn't be able to do any better than exporting PDF from DrawPlus and importing that into Affinity. Unlike the Affinity range, the Plus range use different document formats (you can't open a PagePlus document in DrawPlus) so we even if we did do DrawPlus we'd have to start all over again for PagePlus.

 

There are also marketing considerations. We wanted to be very clear that the Affinity range was a brand new suite of products based on new technology and new code. We did not want Designer to look like a new version of DrawPlus, and if it could open DrawPlus documents that could give the wrong impression.

 

Finally, it's not like we're short of other work to do. We're a small team and we're aware we have a big hill to climb in taking on the market leaders. The Plus team are busy working on future upgrades for that range, so we have no-one spare to do the work.

[peter]

Fair point Dave. It's just a case of us former/current users of Serif's Plus range feeling a sense of split loyalties...So I'll have to keep Windows 7 and its infinite updates on Boot Camp and use PDF export/import between both apps/OS's. Maybe the way forward, is to make Export to PDF and Save as a native file, the norm. Keeping both files side by side each time.

[JohnMcK]

How about Affinity being able to open DrawPlus or PhotoPlus files? (and vice versa)

 

. . . .

 

I still don't understand why they can open up files from Adobe, but not from the same office block. The given answer left me a bit flat.

 

However, AD X3 has got to be pretty slick, eh? Only a decade or so to go.

 

seems to me from this and other threads that there are a lorra lorra people who would actually like DrawPlus for mac. If people do want to use both AD and DP, suggesting exporting a PDF is pointless, might as well move a JPG or a PNG over, you can't work on any of the objects. What's needed is a compatible file format that stores details of vector objects and their properties.

 

Dave H points out though that they're targetting a different market. I think that's the crux of the matter and that's where the development team have their work cut out. They're competing with the likes of Adobe Illustrator and, unless they're looking at the super cheapo market for a poor man's AI, they have taken on a giant. What I mean is: if I need something of the standing of AI, why wouldn't I just use AI? (unless I'm hopelessly short of cash).

 

I think Peter makes a good point about split loyalties. There's nothing Serif have released in the last 12 years that I havn't bought to at least try. I think Serif have a lot of very loyal users who buy add-ons as well as Serif's own products because they feel a loyalty to the brand and Dave H's post does beg the following question: if you're so keen to disassociate yourself with the Plus brand, why did you email all the Plus users?

 

AD is the first time I've decided not to bother at least trying a new Serif product, but that doesn't mean it's a dog. It's just not for me. I do like the way it has vector and raster workspaces and a separate mode for output. In fact I think AD is on a winner there . . .  it's a great idea.

 

Dave H has it wrong though with his analogy of needing to have Affinity Designer open PagePlus files if it opened DrawPlus files. PagePlus isn't a vector drawing application. Following your analogy, Dave, would you have the next release of MoviePlus able to open an Excel spreadsheet? Of course not, it's a different solution for a different set of tasks: just as PagePlus files would never need to be imported to be worked on in DrawPlus. Affinity Designer and DrawPlus both work directly with vector objects and Peter's suggestion and similar suggestions in other threads make perfect sense.

You've got to be wrong as well Dave when you say AD has no kickback to DrawPlus. It maybe happened by accident or because of familiarity with DrawPlus but, especially from the point of view of the studio tabs and toolbars, it's DrawPlus looking straight at you. So, even if you could stretch it to say that no code has been used, the ideas and feature set have a great deal in common. The spirit of DrawPlus is most definitely in AD . . . any DrawPlus user would recognise it in a heartbeat. The trouble is though that a bucket load of the features they normally use are not there, but that takes time.

 

Good luck to the Affinity range but guys . . .  here's a tip. The tone of a lot of staff posts suggest that you see the Plus range as a bit of a scruffy neighbour, if you keep that up you'll turn a lot of people off. You've a long way to go before you can cut it with the big players. I don't scrimp on my software expenditure. My main apps are Logic Pro, Final Cut, Creative Suite, and Autocad. Tally that lot up and you'll find that my Serif Plus apps are pretty small change but I'm fiercly loyal to them. What they do for me is fill in the niche parts that the big players don't have: especially when I'm introducing new learners to digital media topics.

 

I'll keep watch how AD develops, and Peter is probably right: if AD X3 is as good as it promises to be, I'll be among the first to buy. I'll promise you this though and I wd bet money: it'll be full of features from DrawPlus. That's simply because, if it leaves them out, it'll be missing a shed load of great graphic tools.

 

by the way . . . why so many pussy cat avatars in the staff posts???

[MattP]

Hi John,

 

I think you may have read too much into what Dave was saying? - I certainly didn't take it the same way you did.

 

If we do a DrawPlus import for Affinity Designer, then we do need a PagePlus import for Affinity Publisher - I think that's what Dave was getting at. We'd also need PhotoPlus import for Affinity Photo. Each 'Plus' importer is completely separate and time-consuming. I don't think he meant that we would also need to do PagePlus import for Designer, although we'd obviously allow both Affinity products to open both Plus products' documents because to restrict them would be unnecessary and counter-productive as the code is common among all Affinity products.

 

Dave wasn't trying to suggest that we're deliberately trying to not make a good product by keeping things out from our older products so we look different - that would be crazy. There's a good reason why Designer makes you think of DrawPlus - that's because all of us have worked on DrawPlus for years before making Affinity. The layout of the program was something we honed for years and we always got praised for its presentation and productivity, so why wouldn't we want to try to keep that? The things you're defending about the Plus products are the things that we all had a very large hand in creating - I was the Project Manager and Lead Developer of DrawPlus until X5, so I certainly don't think of it as a second-rate product. The crux of what Dave was simply trying to say is that all the things that we, as developers, knew were wrong 'behind the scenes' - all the things that never worked as they should, and all the reasons why the software was always fundamentally limited are all the things we're keen to distance ourselves from because they were the mistakes we made (or that had already been made for us by earlier developers) while learning - and then we moved on to Affinity knowing what we wanted to achieve, how to achieve it and what the pitfalls would be - it was a unique position to be in to be able to reverse all those things and make something that genuinely could be world-class. I think this excitement for what we've achieved is maybe being picked up as putting down what we have previously made - it's not meant to be derisory or negative to the old products (as I said, we actually were passionately typing on them ourselves until a few years ago and in my case I was even managing the product!) and is really only an indication of how we feel about the new code we've written, knowing that at its core, it's extremely scaleable and well designed :)

 

Thanks :)

Matt

 

EDIT: Forgot to answer your other question! There are lots of cat avatars because, well, cats are great! :) My avatar is my cat, Brian.

[peter]

Hi Matt,

 

or putting it another way, the Plus range is one hell of a DNA chain. 

 

Affinity:

• Protege of Serif
• Nemesis of Adobe

PS was "Do you like cats" one of those CV / interview questions, that you asked new candidates? :P

What does the DP team/forums think of AD?

[Dave Harris]

The spirit of DrawPlus is most definitely in AD . . . any DrawPlus user would recognise it in a heartbeat. The trouble is though that a bucket load of the features they normally use are not there, but that takes time.

I never meant to deny your first sentence, but it's the second sentence that causes problems for import. It's not just time: there are DrawPlus features that will never be in Affinity Designer. And as I said, where features are the same they often aren't implemented the same way. For example, the text engine has been rewritten, and the same text can flow differently between the apps.

 

 

The tone of a lot of staff posts suggest that you see the Plus range as a bit of a scruffy neighbour,

That wasn't the impression I was trying to give. Quite the reverse. The Plus range are great, and we don't want to undermine them with what we are doing on the Mac.

 

 

You've a long way to go before you can cut it with the big players.

We're very aware of that. As I said, it's a part of why we want to spend time doing crucial features that we are missing, such as professional level printing. Whenever someone asks us to write an importer, for any other app, we have to balance the benefit of it against all the other things we need to do.

[peter]

Maybe the question is a bit early because I have not really tried Affinity yet.

 

The question is: do I need Affinity? I am interested in all your suggestions.

 

I use DrawPlus, PhotoPlus and MoviePlus in my work as a teacher because my learners can afford to buy the software they learn on. For personal use I work with Adobe CS on Mac, but for scale drawings I use DrawPlus also running on the Mac inside a Parallels virtual machine running Windows 7 on the Mac. I can cut and paste between Windows and Mac OS.

 

Why should I go to all the trouble of learning to use a new app at my age???

 

Your thoughts please . . .

 

 

JohnMcK

DP and AD together: sheer bliss.

[paulears]

I'm in exactly the same position - I've been a Serif user for over 20 years, and use Adobe cc, but use Drawplus and web plus because they work well for me. In draw, the critical things are scaling, dimensions and plan type usage, which it really does well. Since I upgraded to yosemite on my macbook, via Parallels, it's gone badly wrong, and windows is very unpredictable and amazingly slow, so using draw is now out of the question - and I miss it. As it stands, I quite like the look and feel of Affinity, but I was very sad to see it cannot do what Draw does. As I have a subscription to Adobe for Premiere and Photoshop, which I use daily for work, I could use AI - but that doesn't do what Draw does either - so I continue to use draw, and will buy the upgrade to the new one. I just wish I could do what it does on my mac.

[peter]

To use a cliched analogy, this is the 6 weeks holiday between leaving primary school and joining secondary school. Old friends and routines versus strangers and the great unknown. If you feel that strongly about Serif, then you're in good company, devs and users alike. As time passes by, AD's toolbox will grow (pasteboard area for me). Be brave young Jedi...