Fill layer with nested threshold adjustment not working

[NotMyFault]

Steps to reproduce

1. new file
2. add rectangle, 50%grey, 100% noise
3. add threshold adjustment.
4. move it atop, child nested, mask nested
5. expected: pure black or white pixel.
6. now try again with a fill layer of same color.
7. observed: threshold not working in nested position, only on top.

Base noise

 

TH working in all positions

 

TH not working in nested position for fill layer

 

TH working only on top

[NotMyFault]

Actually no nested adjustment or filter layer are working

[lepr]

21 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

Actually no nested adjustment or filter layer are working

Adjustments and Live Filters have always been limited to affecting only the masking alpha of a parent Fill Layer, Adjustment or Live Filter. "By design" and not classed as a bug, as far as I know.

[NotMyFault]

44 minutes ago, lepr said:

Adjustments and Live Filters have always been limited to affecting only the masking alpha of a parent Fill Layer, Adjustment or Live Filter. "By design" and not classed as a bug, as far as I know.

We are talking specifically about RGB channels, not alpha in this thread.

all layers and colors are 100% opaque.

except mask layers there is no layer type impacting only alpha channels. Most adjustments and filter layer types cannot impact the alpha channel.

It might be true that most layer types cannot create colors „from nothing“, so you don’t need to impact color channels from child layers.

in case of procedural texture, channels, levels, curves, and fill layer I have good reasons to child nest e.g. threshold layer or other adjustments, and expect those child nested layers to work in the same way there work on pixel, image, vector, pattern layers.

specifically the pattern layer behaves different to fill layer, despite acting like a fill layer in other ways. 

[NotMyFault]

It becomes more illogical.

try to child nest or mask nest (one at a time)

1. a threshold adjustment 
2. a rectangle with red 50% alpha (on color)

to a fill layer or pattern layer.

pattern layer 

• TH: impacts colors when child nested
• rectangle: impacts alpha when mask nested 
• no impact otherwise

fill layer

• TH no impact in any way
• rectangle: impacts alpha when mask nested 

looks like lottery to forecast the impact of child nested layers, depending on parents layer type. 

[lepr]

29 minutes ago, NotMyFault said:

We are talking specifically about RGB channels, not alpha in this thread.

all layers and colors are 100% opaque.

except mask layers there is no layer type impacting only alpha channels. Most adjustments and filter layer types cannot impact the alpha channel.

I realised that you want to affect RGB of the Fill Layer, but using a nested Adjustment or Live Filter doesn't do that because only the masking alpha of the Fill Layer can be affected by a nested Adjustment or Live Filter. Only some Adjustments and Live Filters can affect alpha, and so of course it is specifically these ones only that can be used to affect the masking alpha of the parent Fill Layer.

[NotMyFault]

At least Affinity should improve the documentation which does not reflect those restrictions 

https://affinity.help/photo2/en-US.lproj/pages/LayerOperations/clipping.html

no mention fill layers behave different

 

Excerpts:

Clipping involves positioning one layer or object inside another, creating a parent - child layer relationship. The path of the parent becomes the new boundaries for the child. Any areas of the child layer (object) which lie outside its parent's path are masked (hidden).
 

Clipping can also be used to confine an adjustment, filter or mask to a single layer or layer group.

 

About clipping

Any layer can act as a parent or child in clipping relationships. Therefore both pixel and vector layer content can be either clipped or clipping.

https://affinity.help/photo2/en-US.lproj/pages/Layers/layerFill.html
no mention of adjustments not working when child nesting

 

[lepr]

7 minutes ago, NotMyFault said:

It becomes more illogical.

try to child nest or mask nest (one at a time)

1. a threshold adjustment 
2. a rectangle with red 50% alpha (on color)

to a fill layer or pattern layer.

pattern layer 

• TH: impacts colors when child nested
• rectangle: impacts alpha when mask nested 
• no impact otherwise

fill layer

• TH no impact in any way
• rectangle: impacts alpha when mask nested 

looks like lottery to forecast the impact of child nested layers, depending on parents layer type. 

 

The following seems clear to me:

• If the parent object has a built-in mask (that is the parent is either a Fill Layer, an Adjustment or a Live Filter), then a nested Adjustment or Live Filter cannot affect colour but it can affect the masking alpha of the parent if the nested Adjustment or Live Filter is one of those that is actually designed to target alpha.
• Otherwise, a nested Adjustment or Live Filter can affect the colour and, if so designed, it can affect the alpha of the parent.

 

[NotMyFault]

How do you rate those types wrt to inherent mask:

• pattern layer
• image layer

Or generally: is there any way to check in Affinity (on iPad) if a layer type has an inherent mask? (Other than nesting a TH adjustment).

Probably brushing with erase brush (false positive on pixel layer)

 

[lepr]

4 minutes ago, NotMyFault said:

How do you rate those types wrt to inherent mask:

• pattern layer
• image layer

 

 

Both have no inherent mask that I've ever been aware of.

As far as I know, only three types of object currently have an inherent mask: Fill Layer, Adjustment and Live Filter.

[lepr]

14 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

Or generally: is there any way to check in Affinity (on iPad) if a layer type has an inherent mask? (Other than nesting a TH adjustment).

Probably brushing with erase brush (false positive on pixel layer)

 

Paint Brush Tool with black will cause an object with an inherent mask to become transparent. (There would be a false positive for a Pixel that has blend options which make black become transparent.)

[NathanC]

Adjustment/Live filter's lack of interaction with Fill layers in a nested/masked position has been historically logged, I've updated and bumped the issue for the visibility of dev to confirm for certain whether or not this is intended functionality, if there's any update i'll report back.