V 2.4.0 - Impossible "Text flow" behaviour

[design punch]

Windows 10 Pro 64bit
 
Hi,

I have just started to convert the scientific books created under version 1 (each with many graphics and images) directly to version 2.4.0. The following problem keeps occurring. Further tests with a newly created V2 Publisher file also show the same problem.

1. create text with linked image group (3 images + caption text) - text flow around (jump) (see picture 1)
2. save file
3. open file, in most cases it looks like in picture 2

- Error also occurs with only one placed - simple - image
- The error sometimes (often not) disappears if you move the image with the mouse. However, this occurs in a book on many pages, it breaks the entire book layout. This error is also transferred to a created .pdf.
- The error occurs as well with picture (pixel layer), which was rasterized and trimmed before!!
- The error disappears (as far as I have been able to test so far) when all linked images are embedded!

Is the problem known?
What can I do?

[MikeTO]

I think there may have been one report of this long ago but I don't remember the details.

Is the grouped image and caption pinned or not pinned?

What are the Paragraph > Flow settings for the body text?

Are you able to share a v1 test file publicly? If you still have v1, you could replace the images with rectangles.

Good luck.

[design punch]

Hi Mike

thanks for the answer, but it doesn't help.

1. the group image pinned or not pinned, doesn't matter ...
2. Paragraph flow is "any position" and all boxes are unchecked.
3. It is independent of V1, because the sample above is completely made in V2

There are strange effects.
So it is better if the graphics in question are embedded (individually or grouped).

However, when you open the file with the embedded files (V2), some graphics first jump to the wrong area (e.g. to the bottom edge) and then jump to the correct position within 1-2 seconds. If the files are linked, they also jump to the bottom, for example, but then usually do not return to their correct position.

I had finished a 200-page book with approx. 80 graphics from V1 in V2.
Everything was ok - incl. .pdf.
Then I opened the file again and some graphics were placed incorrectly.
(In the meantime I have converted all graphics, images etc. to V2, which makes no difference)

I made a test version in V1 now (approx. 10 pages and approx. 10 graphics), ... attached here
With V1 everything works, with V2 the problem occurs immediately.
- If you open it in V2, everything is ok, next save it and open it again, the error usually occurs.
- If you embed all graphics etc., the error seems to be gone.

The occurrence of this problem obviously has a lot to do with "at random".
Once it works, then several times it doesn't !?!

TEST - LOW LEVEL LASER.zip

[design punch]

Hi again,

It's a serious problem (Publisher)!

The effect is crazy!
If you open a book - created with V1 - in V2, everything seems ok, all pages are displayed correctly.
If you then save it in V2 and open it again, some graphics and images keep shifting (as already described).
Even simple images without grouping - see attached jpg.

In the last few days I have converted about 70 scientific books with thousands of graphics from V1 to V2 (fortunately as copies).
Since I only opened all V1 versions once in V2, checked them and then saved them, everything seemed to be ok.

Now that it is clear that the errors only occur from the second opening (reopening) of the V2 files, I have now checked and found that more files are corrupted. See example attached ...

So it is impossible to work with V2.

Is there a solution?

Attachment:
- above: as it should be
- below: as it is after reopening V2 file

[MikeTO]

Could you share a test file?

BTW, there's an easier way to place images that are wrapped above and below that would avoid the issue since it doesn't use text wrap. Just place them inline and Publisher wrap them automatically.

1. Enter a blank paragraph where you want the image(s) to appear. The leading for this paragraph cannot be Exactly so if you use Exactly for your body text just create a separate paragraph style for inline images.
2. If there's a caption or multiple images, group them
3. Do either:
   1. Option 1:
      1. Choose Cut
      2. Position the text cursor in the blank paragraph
      3. Choose Paste
      4. If the image(s) are floating, click the Inline in Text icon in the Toolbar (or choose Layer > Inline in Text)
   2. Option 2:
      1. Click the Inline in Text icon in the Toolbar (or choose Layer > Inline in Text)
      2. If the image(s) are pinned to the wrong location, drag them to the empty paragraph

Option 1 looks longer but if you only use Inline, it's actually faster because the inline vs. floating choice is sticky and the image will never appear in the wrong location.

[design punch]

Hi Mike,

thanks for it, I have to test it ..

Nevertheless it cannot be a final solution at all.
On V1 it worked perfectly, so why should it be a problem on V2 now?

1. Note, in that case I would have to rearrange around 70 books each around 200 pages, or/and thousands of pics, graphs in all of that books ... as a real solution that would be not a real solution, don't you think?
I would call it a serious failure.

2. Additionally this can be only a temporary "emergency" help for one case or a few cases. What to do  in other cases (like text wrapping around an object - like 50% of the line width)? Wouldn't work with paragraph manipulations.

You asking for a test file? See my above entry "TEST - LOW LEVEL LASER.ZIP" - it is a test file with Publisher file, graphs ... all you need for testing.

Do you need anything else?

What does Affinity developers say about this problem???

 

[MikeTO]

I'm sorry, I didn't notice that you'd attached the file.

I wasn't suggesting that you change all of your existing documents to using inline images, but I do recommend that you use that approach in the future. I took a good look at your document and I think using inline images would simplify your workflow. For example, the table at the bottom of the right page of this spread is pinned to the first line of text, far from where it actually appears. This could cause flow issues if you later edited the text.

For now, I found a workaround so you can edit your document successfully in v2 but you may not like it. Open the document in v2. Choose Window > Resource Manager. Select all the resources and click Embed. Save the document. Close and re-open it and it will be okay now. But if you make the resources linked again, the flow issue will return. Using embed will increase the size of the document but it will avoid the issue until the bug can be fixed.

For Serif, I've duplicated this bug with a basic test document using one of @design punch's linked resources (Tab 2.afdesign) which I've also attached below. This document will open correctly in v1 (left) but not in v2 (right). The rectangle pinned on the left is not the problem, it's the pinned linked afdesign document on the right page. If I change that in v1 to embedded then the document will open correctly in v2. If I open in v2, relink, embed, save, close, and re-open, then it will be fine, too.

I tried replacing the afdesign which one I made in v1 myself but couldn't duplicate it with that. I inspected Tab 2.afdesign but nothing jumped out at me, it's a simple file, but I'm probably missing something.

test.afpubTab 2.afdesign

 

[design punch]

Hi Mike, thanks for your effort.

Yes, embedding is the only way to be safe ... for the time being.

"Open the document in v2. Choose Window > Resource Manager. Select all the resources and click Embed. Save the document. Close and re-open it and it will be okay now."

No, it sometimes happens this way, but not always.
I opened your test file (test.afpub & tab2.afdesign) in V1, linked the afdesign to the correct path and saved it again in V1. Everything is fine in V1.
Next, I opened it (initially, so to speak) in V2 ... This time the error is already there (in other cases it only happened the second time I opened it).
So the files should already be embedded in V1 before opening them in V2.

However, the behaviour of this error is unpredictable.
In the picture above (attached) I have left only one graphic (not pinned) in V2.
But elements - also on the opposite page and from the master page - are hidden (see arrows).
If you then simply move the table with the mouse, the missing elements reappear, depending on how you move the mouse (image below).
This behaviour depends on the mouse movement.

But the most important part of your answer for me is: "... until the bug can be fixed."
Will Affinity fix this?
Until when?
The answer is rather important for me to decide how to proceed with V1/V2!

[Hangman]

The issue in v2 is caused when an object is Grouped with a Placed Affinity file, Pinned and then a Text Wrap is applied to the Group...

In the case of @design punch's file, 1-10 Test Low Level Laser Therapie.afpub the issue is caused by the caption being Grouped with the Placed Affinity Designer graphic, Tab 2.afdesign when the group then has a Text Wrap applied to it...

Steps to Demonstrate

1. Open 1-10 Test Low Level Laser Therapie.afpub in Publisher v2
2. Save the file so it now becomes a v2 document
3. Close and reopen the v2 document and the text flow is messed up
4. Unpin Tab 2.afdesign
5. Delete or Move the Caption so it is no longer grouped with the Placed Designer file, Tab 2.afdesign
6. Repin Tab 2.afdesign and reapply the Text Wrap and the text flow is back to normal even after Saving, Closing and Reopening the Publisher file

Steps to Recreate from Scratch

1. Create a rectangle in Designer v1
2. Place the Rectangle into a v1 Publisher document containing text in a text frame
3. Pin the Placed Designer file to the text in the text frame and apply a text wrap
4. Save, Close and Open the Publisher v1 document in Publisher v2
5. Save the File as a Publisher v2 document
6. Close and reopen the file and the text flow appears correctly
7. Unpin the Placed Designer file
8. Add a rectangle below and Group it with the Placed Designer file
9. Repin the Grouped graphic and reapply the text wrap and the text flow is messed up
10. Unpin the Grouped graphic and delete the rectangle added in Step 8
11. Repin the Placed Designer file, reapply the Text Wrap and all is back to normal even after Saving, Closing and Reopening the Publisher file

[design punch]

Hi Hangman, thanks for the answer.

I've tested what you did, and it's understandable, but that can't be a solution.

The question here is why this always worked in V1, but no longer in V2 (book transfer from V1).
(Yesterday I finished a 230 page book (V1) with about 140 placed graphics and grouped captions to each object - absolutely no problem ...
Then I opened it in V2 and it crashed the layout as described)

If what you describe were true and not a bug, it would be a huge step backwards - V1 to V2 has to be regarded as incompatible versions!
A newer version can't kill the work done with a previous version!

P.S.: I tested your demo, however, it has nothing to do with pinning. The same problems happens even without pinning.

As far as I've got, text wrapping in V2 only works (at least when creating a new V2 file) if:
- there are only internal objects (e.g. rectangles, text frames), which can then be grouped
- or external objects are embedded, are then treated like internal objects and can then be grouped
- or only a single external object has been placed (link)

But I'm not quite sure about that now ... too many random effects appeared the last days on V2 on this matter

Seems that it is a bug somehow ... have to embed all graphics  etc. in V2 to avoid such crashes!
Hope Affinity team will be able to correct that problem soon.

 

[Hangman]

Hi @design punch,

4 minutes ago, design punch said:

I've tested what you did, and it's understandable, but that can't be a solution.

Absolutely, this is a bug, I was simply explaining what is causing it, certainly not trying to defend it...

6 minutes ago, design punch said:

P.S.: I tested your demo, however, it has nothing to do with pinning. The same problems happens even without pinning.

I noticed that as well when testing but decided to include pinned objects in the description since your source file uses pinned objects...

35 minutes ago, design punch said:

As far as I've got, text wrapping in V2 only works (at least when creating a new V2 file) if:
- there are only internal objects (e.g. rectangles, text frames), which can then be grouped
- or external objects are embedded, are then treated like internal objects and can then be grouped
- or only a single external object has been placed (link)

I would agree with that... the bug is not unique to opening v1 files in v2, the same bug exists when creating and placing Linked v2 Designer files in a v2 Publisher document and then grouping them with an internal object, whether a shape, text frame or whatever...

I'm actually amazed this hasn't been picked up and logged already (assuming it hasn't) as the bug exists as far back as v2.0.4...

[design punch]

Hi Hangman,

thanks for your answer.
Hope Affinity will speed up with a solution ...

[Hangman]

Hi @design punch,

One workaround if you want to keep everything Linked rather than Embedded is to adopt the approach you have for all the other Placed files which is to use a Picture Frame...

For the affected Placed Files not currently using a Picture Frame, i.e., Placed Designer files with captions not nested in a Picture Frame:

1. Unpin
2. Ungroup
3. Selected the Placed Designer file, Right Click and select Convert to Picture Frame or use Layer > Convert to Picture Frame*
4. Change the picture frame height to include the Placed file with Caption, e.g., with the Tab 2.afdesign file, change the Picture Frame height to 48 mm
5. Change the Picture Frame Properties to Scale to Min Fit ensuring the Anchor is set to Top
6. In the Layers Panel drag the Caption so it's nested inside the Picture Frame
7. Reapply the Text Wrap and Pin as required
8. Save

*If you have loads of these to do, assign a keyboard shortcut to Convert to Picture Frame to speed up the process...

Based on the file you uploaded it looks as though this is how you've approached the vast majority of placed files that have captions anyway so hopefully it's not going to be an onerous task to correct those that don't currently already adopt this approach...

[design punch]

Hi,

thanks for the workaround .. I tried and it seems to be a practical way ...

[design punch]

Hi,
I have now checked all the books made in V1 (now with V 4.2.1).
In most places where a grouping with internal and externally linked elements - or several linked external elements - was present (usually pinned), there were problems.
Shifts etc. in the text (wrapping) etc. were often only displayed after repeatedly opening a Publisher file.
Occasionally groupings were shifted, but jumped to the correct position a few seconds after opening the file (random principle!).

- Various elements within Publisher (e.g. text, rectangles, tables) could be grouped and pinned without any problems.
- Grouping internal elements together with linked external elements lead to problems.
- Several linked external elements (e.g. just two images) lead to problems if they are pinned.

I could not rely on the fact that a book that looked correct after correction or without correction did not show errors again when opened again (if there was still an "unauthorised" grouping somewhere)!

None of such problems were found in V1 ...
I had to change all such groupings to "picture frame compositions" ...

[Hangman]

Hi @design punch,

Thanks for the update, this should get picked up by someone in the moderation team and logged as a bug to be fixed in a future update...

[DWright]

I have logged this issue with our developers

[design punch]

Thank you very much!