I need a Lightroom replacement, what are you guys using?

[General Disarray]

I bought the Affinity suite back in December, and I love it. I use Photo all the time, and the other two every once in a while. I think this suite is far better than the Adobe products it competes against, especially Photoshop, which is a dinosaur that they keep slapping things on top of. 

I haven't paid for the Adobe Cloud subscription in years, although I use it often in my work laptop. And I definitely don't want to go back to pay for it. But while the Affinity suite does an excellent job replacing Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign, the thing I'm having trouble finding a good replacement for is Lightroom Classic. Slow as it is, it's great for managing large amounts of photos, and to easily change settings for large batches.

I hope Serif comes up with a good replacement in the near future, which I'm sure will be better than Lightroom, but in the meantime I wanted to get a feeling for what the rest of the Affinity community is using. I bought On1 Photo a couple of days ago. It's not bad, but it's kind of slow at times (on a Mac Studio Ultra, so nothing should be slow), and some menus look like all the commands are piled up with little space between them. On the other hand, it's only $100, while others are more expensive. The good thing is that you can return it within 30 days if you don't like it.

So what are most people here using as far as a Lightroom alternative for large amounts of photos?

[AngPixelit]

There’s an older forum about this specific thing. I’ve been researching this very thing so I can finally kick Adobe to the curb and their ridiculous subscription plan along with it.
 

Most people suggested Darktable or On1

 

 

[PaoloT]

I use Apple Photos. It's fast and powerful, and is decently integrated with the Affinity Suite. The only thing I really dislike is how hidden it is switching from the personal to the work libraries.

Paolo

 

[lphilpot]

I'm not evangelizing any of these but they're capable and free so it makes sense to at least try them before paying for something else.

• Raw Therapee - http://rawpedia.rawtherapee.com/Main_Page
• ART (Raw Therapee derivative) - https://bitbucket.org/agriggio/art/wiki/Home
• darktable - https://www.darktable.org/

Note - darktable has image management included (an image database, indexing, tags, etc.) while the other two are purely raw processors only and simply operate at the filesystem level. All are pretty much equivalent (at the 95% level, I'd day) in their capabilities,  but slightly different in their approaches. I personally use ART right now but have used, and keep installed / updated, the other two.

All three have active user communities -- including the developers -- at PIXLS.US:

• Raw Therapee - https://discuss.pixls.us/c/software/rawtherapee/14
• ART - https://discuss.pixls.us/c/software/art/36
• darktable - https://discuss.pixls.us/c/software/darktable/19

There's another very interesting one called vkdt which runs entirely on your GPU and is very fast. However, I think it's currently for Linux only (not sure). It's under very heavy development but I'm not up to speed on the current status. Downloads: https://github.com/hanatos/vkdt/releases/tag/0.6.0 If this isn't the latest, my apologies. I'm on Windows so I'm not a vkdt user. Forum: https://discuss.pixls.us/c/software/vkdt/41

[v_kyr]

Further if it's more for the missing cataloging features of Lightroom, then also take a look on the free digiKam.

[General Disarray]

On 10/6/2023 at 1:12 PM, AngPixelit said:

Most people suggested Darktable or On1

Well, I bought ON1 and I'll probably ask for the refund. I took some photos with my old DSLR, a Canon EOS 60D, so probably a lot less megapixels than new cameras, and just a few photos, less than 50 for a project my wife is working on. And it's slow as hell. So as soon as I get a chance I'm going to ask for a refund and then look for something better, whether it's free or more expensive, but something I can buy and not lose one day if I lose my job (which can happen to anyone at anytime) and can't afford the subscription anymore.

[General Disarray]

22 hours ago, PaoloT said:

I use Apple Photos. It's fast and powerful, and is decently integrated with the Affinity Suite. The only thing I really dislike is how hidden it is switching from the personal to the work libraries.

Yeah, that's the main problem for me. Apple used to have a very nice photo catalog program called Aperture, I don't know why the hell they stopped working in it. They kept working on Logic Pro X, Final Cut Pro X, Motion, Compressor, Pages, etc. Why kill Aperture? It's absurd. It could be another one of those apps you buy for $200 and then never pay for an update again.

[General Disarray]

15 hours ago, lphilpot said:

I'm not evangelizing any of these but they're capable and free so it makes sense to at least try them before paying for something else.

• Raw Therapee - http://rawpedia.rawtherapee.com/Main_Page
• ART (Raw Therapee derivative) - https://bitbucket.org/agriggio/art/wiki/Home
• darktable - https://www.darktable.org/

Note - darktable has image management included (an image database, indexing, tags, etc.) while the other two are purely raw processors only and simply operate at the filesystem level. All are pretty much equivalent (at the 95% level, I'd day) in their capabilities,  but slightly different in their approaches. I personally use ART right now but have used, and keep installed / updated, the other two.

All three have active user communities -- including the developers -- at PIXLS.US:

• Raw Therapee - https://discuss.pixls.us/c/software/rawtherapee/14
• ART - https://discuss.pixls.us/c/software/art/36
• darktable - https://discuss.pixls.us/c/software/darktable/19

There's another very interesting one called vkdt which runs entirely on your GPU and is very fast. However, I think it's currently for Linux only (not sure). It's under very heavy development but I'm not up to speed on the current status. Downloads: https://github.com/hanatos/vkdt/releases/tag/0.6.0 If this isn't the latest, my apologies. I'm on Windows so I'm not a vkdt user. Forum: https://discuss.pixls.us/c/software/vkdt/41

Thanks for the detailed post. I'll be checking on your suggestions very soon.

[General Disarray]

11 hours ago, v_kyr said:

Further if it's more for the missing cataloging features of Lightroom, then also take a look on the free digiKam.

Looks interesting, I'll take a look tomorrow.

[loukash]

15 hours ago, v_kyr said:

take a look on the free digiKam.

4 hours ago, General Disarray said:

Looks interesting, I'll take a look tomorrow.

Note that Digikam's so called "Albums" are simply just mirroring Finder folders. All changes to the "Albums" are destructive as far as your existing Finder folder structure is concerned. An absolute no go for me.

As a viewer, Digikam has some benefits over, say, XnViewMP. But it can't display Affinity preview thumbnails while XnViewMP can. It can catalog Affinity docs though, you just need to add the afphoto/afdesign/afpub file extensions to the list in preferences.
On the other hand, XnViewMP has some rudimentary and poorly documented support for meta-albums confusingly called "Category Sets" while it also calls keywords "Categories" at the same time. Duh.

Also note that similar to XnView, the monolithic "thumbnails-digikam.db" file will become massive. Mine is at 4GB right now, with about 100000 objects in the "albums", i.e. my complete ~/Pictures folder and the "biz" part of my ~/Documents folder. That's a major issue when it comes to backing up. I had to move the Digikam app support folder to ~/Library/Cache in order to avoid hourly 4GB backups via Time Machine…  

For the record, as a designer (not primarily a photographer) I'm coming from iView/Expression Media. My best replacement so far is NeoFinder which I've been using as a cataloging tool for the past 23 years anyway.

[v_kyr]

4 hours ago, General Disarray said:

Yeah, that's the main problem for me. Apple used to have a very nice photo catalog program called Aperture, I don't know why the hell they stopped working in it. They kept working on Logic Pro X, Final Cut Pro X, Motion, Compressor, Pages, etc. Why kill Aperture? It's absurd. It could be another one of those apps you buy for $200 and then never pay for an update again.

AFAI know Aperture was 32-bit and so didn't run initially any more under Catalina. Apple instead to porting it over to 64-bit sadly discontinued it (and iPhoto) in favor of Photos, as these Apple apps (Aperture & iPhoto) weren't able to keep up with fast growing Lightroom presense and dev speed. - However, those who still have an Aperture copy can try out ...

• Retroactive

... in order to still make out some use of Aperture under more modern 64-bit macOS versions.

Other than that, there's a sort of Aperture successor for MacOS, called ...

• RAW Power

... developed from the former main Apple Aperture developer. So one can assume that it might resemble Aperture very well.

[loukash]

38 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

• Retroactive

... in order to still make out some use of Aperture under more modern 64-bit macOS versions.

I've never used Aperture but thanks to Retroactive, on Ventura I have successfully installed my beloved iTunes 10.7 – (!) which was already officially "obsolete" as of Mountain Lion back in 2013, for that matter – and it works! (Take that, you silly Music.app!)
So it's definitely worth to try.

[loukash]

Yesterday I installed the ACDSee Mac trial.
It has some potential, at least it can display Affinity previews and it also seems to play nicely with Affinity apps as external editors. It has a RAW mode but I'm not interested in that at all, I only need a DAM. Also, it can obviously display practically all "esoteric" legacy IPTC metadata that have likely ever existed and that I have never heard of. It can manage multiple databases so that one could likely avoid those fat monolithic *.db files à la XnViewMP or Digikam.

But I have already found a few annoyances that makes it a no-go for me.
First and foremost it requires you to create an "acdID" account to even launch the trial. Well, I worked around by creating a randomly named account via Apple ID relay but… nah.
It also installs a background process that places a menu into your menu bar that cannot be killed.
100% dealbreakers.

Feature-wise, for my requirements, I can likely achieve the same results in XnViewMP as well, for free and without being tracked, even though the UI and documentation leaves a lot to be desired on Mac.

[v_kyr]

55 minutes ago, loukash said:

It can manage multiple databases so that one could likely avoid those fat monolithic *.db files à la XnViewMP or Digikam.

See related ...

• How to use multiple photo libraries with DigiKam
• https://github.com/DeaDSouL/unix.cafe_digikam-multiple-libraries

[lphilpot]

1 hour ago, loukash said:

It can manage multiple databases so that one could likely avoid those fat monolithic *.db files à la XnViewMP or Digikam.

Then again, particularly now in the days of massive SSDs, is there really a huge (no pun intended) advantage to spreading your catalog / data over multiple, relatively smaller, files? Performance, maybe? But that's dependent on the implementation.

Just wondering...

[loukash]

1 hour ago, lphilpot said:

is there really a huge (no pun intended) advantage to spreading your catalog / data over multiple, relatively smaller, files?

It's about workflow habits, it's about backup strategies etc. I have over 30 years worth of digital documents, images, photos, artwork, layouts, audio recordings, you name it, not to speak of all the data I've literally inherited from my late dad and from a late old friend…
So I'm not really gonna "rethink" my strategies every odd year, am I?  

As it seems, for the time being I'm gonna stick with the combination of NeoFinder, with some "support" from GraphicConverter (Browser mode) and XnViewMP to supply the "combined" DAM duties. As I have posted in another similar thread, NeoFinder is "almost there" where I'd like it to be, so there's hope. I've been submitting feature requests and bug reports to the developer since over 20 years now, and he's very cooperative, i.e. NeoFinder already has a bunch of features based on my ideas while it still was "CDFinder".  

[lphilpot]

3 minutes ago, loukash said:

inherited from my late dad

I think my family had one or two paper photo albums with snapshots from the 1920s / 40s to 1980s maybe. Where they went I really don't know.  🙂  It's never crossed my mind, actually. Maybe one of my sisters has it / them, dunno...

[loukash]

10 minutes ago, lphilpot said:

I think my family had one or two paper photo albums with snapshots from the 1920s / 40s to 1980s maybe. Where they went I really don't know.

Hehe, my dad was a hoarder, both physically as well as digitally. It took me 4 weeks – amidst the 2020 lockdown abroad where he used to live, so I had to do everything almost alone because I barely knew anyone there – to find all the things I wanted to keep and to clean up his flat.

And to stay on topic:

NeoFinder was/is an immense help here. My dad hoarded about 60 or so external and internal hard drives, totaling almost 100 TB worth of data. So as the first step, while I was still there in his place, I cataloged them all with NeoFinder to get an overview and the ability to search for anything needed. Those NeoFinder catalogs alone are 10 GB in total. He had neither a backup strategy nor any cataloging tools, although I've told him a few times to do so. So his drives are a total mess, and his "catalogs" were plain RTF documents. Duh. It's still a work in progress, sorting it out and everything. He was a passionate photographer and also did some digital art, so there's stuff worth to keep, somewhere. But like in his "physical" life there are piles and piles of digital junk all over.
Additionally, he was a "Windows devotee" and so his drives are all in the NTFS format that is read-only on Mac. So to be able to actually work with them in a reliable MacOS environment, first I have to copy each to a HFS+ drive which alone can take hours.

And yes, there is a lot of benefit in having separate catalogs within the Neofinder library, be it drives, servers, CDRs, DVDRs, local or remote folders: 

• you can easily limit search or smart folders to specific catalogs
• if you accidentally mess up a catalog by some means (can happen), all other catalogs are unaffected

And back to your previous question:
Some of my NeoFinder catalogs are over 1GB each like those of my dad's drives where I also cataloged image thumbnails, other catalogs are just a few KB like those of my old backup CDRs or even *gasp* my antique floppy and Zip discs. All catalogs together are now over 15GB. I definitely wouldn't want it to be a monolithic monster file.

[loukash]

On 10/7/2023 at 5:22 PM, lphilpot said:

darktable has image management included

I had a brief look at Darktable yesterday, since it's been installed on my older MacBook for quite some time but I never got around to check it out. The interface is horrible, and I didn't have the patience to figure it out so I gave up after like 10 minutes…

[loukash]

2 hours ago, v_kyr said:

DigiKam

One annoying thing about Digikam is that its file list sorting is case sensitive. At first I thought that I accidentally deleted a bunch of images!
I haven't found any setting to change that.

[lphilpot]

Just now, loukash said:

The interface is horrible, and I didn't have the patience to figure it out

I don't entirely disagree but personally I'd clarify... (also, I'm currently not a regular darktable user anymore, as I use ART, but I try to keep up with it)

• UI -- From a purely visual / cosmetic POV I'd say the UI is intentionally simple and minimal to reduce distractions to the image being edited. Also, the recommended color is as close to mid-tone grey as possible. That's all intended to minimize interactions with image colors and has been basically stated as such on the forums. There's even a special ISO mode to put a white & grey border around the image for maximally accurate color perception.
  
  Personally, I would like a little more attractive, less spartan UI. But it's functional and functionally the UI is a direct reflection of how darktable is designed, which ties into the next point...
   
• Learning it / how it works -- darktable has never been intended (from the outset) to be a LR clone, C1 clone, etc. It's its own animal, heavy on color science and deliberately exposing much of the underlying logic. It has to be intentionally learned, from the documentation / tutorials. Trying to just figure it out incrementally is a recipe for frustration. You have to want to learn it.

Also, keep in mind darktable is under heavy development, so new features are constantly being introduced, refined, etc. It can do wonderful work in the hands of a competent user, but it basically requires a competent user.

[v_kyr]

1 hour ago, loukash said:

and so his drives are all in the NTFS format that is read-only on Mac

This shouldn't really be an obstacle because there are drivers like Paragon NTFS (...and a bunch of other such NTFS driver tools) which do allow full write access too. BTW I've once bought some USB-stick where it was already on and bundled with for macOS users. And on another stick was Tuxera NTFS for Mac bundled/included.

 

1 hour ago, loukash said:

One annoying thing about Digikam is that its file list sorting is case sensitive. At first I thought that I accidentally deleted a bunch of images!
I haven't found any setting to change that.

Maybe use a search view or the like which isn't ...

• https://docs.digikam.org/en/main_window/search_view.html

... further if that information is in the DB (MariaDB/SQLite) then you can always build your own sorted (case sensivity) output lists by just let some sql-script do the job the way you want then instead. The good is here that you can always access (read/write) and make use of everything from these DBs via DB-/SqlBrowsers and also from own programs & scripts.

 

UI-wise all of the opensource build third-party tools are build with some platform independent GUI library and none of these does replicate a respective host systems UI style wise 1:1, or do follow strictly the repective OS style guides. -  Also the Affinity apps doesn't!

 

[loukash]

Just now, v_kyr said:

This shouldn't really be an obstacle because there are drivers like [insert driver here]

I knew this would come…  
Er… no. It's not worth the hassle for what I want to accomplish. And yes, I tried.
Also, that's definitely off topic. 

13 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

The good is here that you can always access (read/write) and make use of everything from these DBs via DB-/SqlBrowsers and also from own programs & scripts

Perhaps my next reincarnation will have the time for that. 

14 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Also the Affinity apps doesn't!

You definitely don't need to tell me…  

[loukash]

Speaking of:

On 10/8/2023 at 1:08 PM, loukash said:

I'm coming from iView/Expression Media

The Mac version won't work past Mojave as it's 32-bit, but I realized that the Win version should run in Wine, even on Apple Silicon (e.g. via Whisky; get v1.1.1 to run it on Ventura).
It took some effort to find a working download link for MS Expression Media 2.0.1 Win installer on archive.org, but here it is: 
web.archive.org/web/20110917183146/download.microsoft.com/download/4/7/b/47b6e0f3-ef66-4a38-aa36-3c6ecf690f36/Media_en.msi
I also found a link to the 2.0.2 patch:
web.archive.org/web/20090302070758/download.microsoft.com/download/6/3/5/6353ABBA-2076-4856-B259-ABD8987644E7/MediaPatch_en.msp

Now, using Whisky as the Wine GUI, I have created a WinXP bottle and (kinda) successfully installed the Media_en.msi stuff.
I wasn't able to make the MediaPatch_en.msp run though, no idea what I'm doing wrong as I have bare to none experience with the actual Windows ecosystem. Nonetheless E.M. 2 SP1 runs.

Caveats:

• On my M2 MacBook with Ventura, launching E.M. will leave its splash screen as a stuck "display artefact" in the middle of the screen, obscuring everything. 
  Workaround: Make sure you have multiple Desktops aka Spaces enabled. Launch E.M. on one desktop where the splash screen will remain stuck, but you can then simply drag the actual Media app window to another Desktop/Space
• My Mac serial number is considered invalid for the Windows version. However, the trial version will run for 30 days. After it expires, I can simply install E.M. again in a new bottle as a new trial, copy any of my existing E.M. settings from the old bottle and delete the later. (Although, user files don't even need to live in a bottle, you can also link to them via symlinks from your regular MacOS directory.)
• I don't intend to use E.M. as a DAM anymore, it's just too limited in terms of compatible file formats these days. But it's still usable as an iView catalog *.ivc reader, especially since many iView metadata cannot be written to files that never supported IPTC/XMP.
• Speaking of reader, I wasn't able to find an archive.org download link for the free Win version of E.M. Reader yet. 

[onno-r]

Hi, 

I use LYN (https://www.lynapp.com). Good for photo collections also from external drives. Has basic image editing possibilities.

No match for Affinity Photo of course. But for viewing and organising it works well.

You can make changes to IPTC and GPS too. You can tag (Finder compatible) and add keywords.

And it has smart folders to search your tagged images.

And  it also reads AD and AP thumbnails (which XnView on Sonoma does'nt anymore).