Merge two points?

[Retromantic]

I have two points along a shape, and they are directly on top of each other, so I want to merge them to end up with only one point in that spot but the shape remaining unchanged. This is easy in Illustrator, but I cannot for the life of me find an option to do this either on the iPad (Where I’m currently working) or the desktop.

To clarify, I don’t wish to join two unconnected points, I know how to do that - I want to simplify a path which has two points over the top of each other due to a path operation which has left the corner messy.

This is such a basic thing to do, am I doing something wrong?

[Dan C]

Hi @Retr0mantic,

1 hour ago, Retr0mantic said:

I have two points along a shape, and they are directly on top of each other, so I want to merge them to end up with only one point in that spot but the shape remaining unchanged.

Unfortunately there's no option to 'Merge' 2 nodes into one at this time, my apologies.

1 hour ago, Retr0mantic said:

I cannot for the life of me find an option to do this either on the iPad (Where I’m currently working) or the desktop.

However on Desktop, you can use the CMD+ALT+Backspace (macOS) or CTRL+ALT+Backspace (Win) to delete a node whilst attempting to retain the curves geometry - So I'd recommend using this option to remove one of the unnecessary nodes along your Curve.

This option isn't available on iPad currently, but is logged to be considered for a future update.

I hope this helps

[Aammppaa]

Break the curve where the 2 nodes overlap. Then select both nodes and Join the nodes.

I find this operation to be very hit and miss. Sometimes it works to merge the nodes, other times it inserts a straight line between the 2 nodes.

I have never figured out why, but feel it is something to do with snapping options.

See this screen capture... I perform the same Break and Join operation 3 times. On the first two attempts it fails, but on the third try success! Why?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Split and Rejoin Nodes Example.mp4

@Dan C This is surely a bug? Can you confirm whether it is logged to be looked at?

[Aammppaa]

OK I think I spotted the difference between the failed attempts and the successful one...

In attempts 1 and 2 I only selected one of the nodes prior to the Break Curve.

In attempt 3 I marquee select both the overlapping nodes prior to the Break Curve.

I imagine that Breaking at only one node leaves a handle protruding from the other node which then interferes with the Join operation.

[Retromantic]

It’s a big one. REALLY necessary. To be honest I’m staggered we’ve got to version 2 without it.

I realise some of these things are a challenge to bring to iPad. But, if features can be implemented technically while the UI isn’t figured out, then at least implement them and make the keyboard commands available. I’m now using my iPad with a keyboard and the muscle memory is strong. For example CommandY should show outlines, but it doesn’t because the iPad handles that totally differently.

Perhaps if there is a merge point option in the future, if it has a keystroke, at least it could be featured in the iPad app until the UI is worked through.

I’d love the keyboard commands to be universal, the iPad is more like a computer by the day…

[Retromantic]

BTW I figured it out but I don’t know how. Any split and join operation created crazy handles and I had to do a lot of cleaning up. In Illustrator it would have been one click. I think this feature, and a ‘simplify path’ option are really urgently needed.

[Dan C]

57 minutes ago, Aammppaa said:

OK I think I spotted the difference between the failed attempts and the successful one...

In attempts 1 and 2 I only selected one of the nodes prior to the Break Curve.

In attempt 3 I marquee select both the overlapping nodes prior to the Break Curve.

I imagine that Breaking at only one node leaves a handle protruding from the other node which then interferes with the Join operation.

Thanks for your recording provided - interestingly I actually believe there to be 2 separate bugs with this workflow, causing the difference you're seeing!

When selecting only one of the overlapping nodes and using Break Curve, it appears as though a new node is added to the newly split Curve object, leaving the original curve object with 2 nodes within the same location still. When re-joining these 2 objects (and therefore 3 nodes in one location), the curve returns to having 2 nodes in one location, with a join between them. As I understand it, the app should not be adding a new node in this instance, it should be creating 2 separate curve objects, with a singular end node in the same location on the canvas.

When marquee selecting both of the overlapping nodes and using Break Curve, the app actually creates 3 Curve objects, 2 Curves of each segment with a singular end node in the same location on the canvas, and a Curve consisting of a singular node in this location also - which is a 'phantom' object that should not exist. Note you can select this in the Layers Studio, but not on the canvas itself.

In your example, after marquee selecting both nodes and using Break Curve, you then deselect your selection and select only the 2 expected segments, which is why when using Join Curves the shape created only has 1 node in this spot, as expected -

 
I'm logging both of these issues with our dev team now, I hope this clears things up

[Dan C]

16 minutes ago, Redesignerer said:

For example CommandY should show outlines, but it doesn’t because the iPad handles that totally differently.

Unfortunately the iPad version doesn't currently support keyboard shortcuts for specific View Modes like the desktop, you could configure CMD + Y in Settings > Shortcuts to open the Navigator Studio, however you would still need to manually enable the required view mode at this time.

13 minutes ago, Redesignerer said:

I think this feature, and a ‘simplify path’ option are really urgently needed

I can confirm that both of these are logged as requested improvements with our developers to be considered for a future update, for both the iPad and Desktop versions 

[Aammppaa]

Ha! Great detective work Dan C.

Fingers crossed that these issues can be fixed soon as I think that would go some way to helping people merge nodes, a subject that comes up with some regularity on the forum.

[lepr]

On 8/10/2023 at 3:25 PM, Dan C said:

and a Curve consisting of a singular node in this location also - which is a 'phantom' object that should not exist.

No, that's an open curve with two nodes. The nodes are at the same location and a line with zero length isn't rendered, of course. Dragging just one of its nodes gives length to the curve and so it gets rendered.

[lepr]

On 8/10/2023 at 3:25 PM, Dan C said:

When selecting only one of the overlapping nodes and using Break Curve, it appears as though a new node is added to the newly split Curve object, leaving the original curve object with 2 nodes within the same location still. When re-joining these 2 objects (and therefore 3 nodes in one location), the curve returns to having 2 nodes in one location, with a join between them. As I understand it, the app should not be adding a new node in this instance, it should be creating 2 separate curve objects, with a singular end node in the same location on the canvas.

The problem is not that an unwarranted node is being added to one of the curves resulting from the break - that addition is not happening. The problem is that the software neglects to remove superfluous nodes when nodes within a curve coincide.

Consider what happens when there is some distance between the pair of nodes near the middle of an open four node curve. Breaking at one of these nodes results in an open curve with two nodes and an open curve with three nodes. The same result is happening when there is no distance between the middle nodes and just one of these nodes gets broken. Of course, the software would be improved if nodes were automatically removed whenever they became superfluous.

 

[Bryan Rieger]

On 8/10/2023 at 7:29 AM, Dan C said:

…on Desktop, you can use the CMD+ALT+Backspace (macOS) or CTRL+ALT+Backspace (Win) to delete a node whilst attempting to retain the curves geometry - So I'd recommend using this option to remove one of the unnecessary nodes along your Curve.

This option isn't available on iPad currently, but is logged to be considered for a future update.

@Dan C OMG I had NO idea this existed? Do you know how much time I've wasted cleaning up and redrawing extraneous nodes in Affinity Designer?! This is one of my biggest pet peeves when drawing with Affinity Designer. Why isn't this behaviour the default? Why is it hidden behind keyboard shortcuts that nobody can remember?

Unfortunately I work primarily on iPad so I'm still stuck with my current agonizingly slow workflow, but knowing this exists gives me hope. Please just make it the default behaviour and available everywhere. Who really wants to delete nodes and have the geometry change drastically and unexpectedly?

Apologies for hijacking this thread, but I just want to make sure you knew how important this behaviour is.

BTW being able to merge two points is another essential feature. Right now the workarounds are so time-consuming.

[Dan C]

18 hours ago, Bryan Rieger said:

Why isn't this behaviour the default?

18 hours ago, Bryan Rieger said:

Unfortunately I work primarily on iPad so I'm still stuck with my current agonizingly slow workflow, but knowing this exists gives me hope. Please just make it the default behaviour and available everywhere. Who really wants to delete nodes and have the geometry change drastically and unexpectedly?

I'd recommend creating a Feedback post if you wish to see this as the default behaviour in Affinity, or perhaps an option could be added to set this as default when deleting nodes.

18 hours ago, Bryan Rieger said:

Why is it hidden behind keyboard shortcuts that nobody can remember?

I have however requested with the team that this should be clearer, as currently it appears to only be noted within the following helpfile page under 'To Delete Nodes' -

https://affinity.help/designer2/English.lproj/index.html?page=pages/CurvesShapes/edit_linesAndShapes.html?title=Edit curves and shapes

I hope this clears things up