Alignment Option – Use Key Object for Spacing Operations and from the Toolbar Pop-Up

[Mr. Doodlezz]

Hey everyone,

Update: Okay, apparently I completely missed the introduction of Key Objects somehow. Thanks for telling me it’s already there! 🤯

Firstly, however, part of my original subject was that key objects should work for any alignment – this includes the spacing operations »Space Vertical« and »Space Horizontal«. They currently work for the general alignment options such as top/bottom, left/right.

From my logic it could/should work like this:

1. If NO key object is selected, the last set »Align To:« option works as intended and expected.
2. However, if a key object IS selected, the »Align To:« option should react and prioritise it by changing the »Align To: Key Object«.
   1. As soon as there’s no Key Object selected, it switches back to the previous item in the list, like »Last/First Selected«.

Without checking, I think this is how it works in Illustrator as well.

And I mean, it's just logical (at least to me): If a user actively selects a Key Object (and for Designer this can't be accidental, since you have to hold down an extra key on your keyboard), the user most likely wants to use it as such.

So the Key Object should always have the highest priority in the list of alignment candidates/options.

Secondly: They also only work from the Context toolbar – when I work with the toolbar popup and want to align (top/bottom, left/right, ...) it prioritises the selected »Align to:« option from the drop down. I think there's an item missing from this list for key objects to work in the toolbar popup as well, and I think that's the culprit.

It's not at all obvious that »First Selected« equals »Key Object« in the »Align To:« dropdown in the Toolbar (not Context Toolbar).

–––

I very dearly miss the ability to click on one of multiple selected shapes (especially in Designer and Publisher) in order to define it as some sort of »pivot« object, so to speak, around which all other alignments will happen since day one switching to Designer almost ten years ago. (Wow, Designer really turns 10 next year!)

The »First/Last Selected« options in the »Align to:« dropdown come close to what I mean, but are not as intuitive, nor do they work for all alignment operations such as »Space Horizontal/Vertical«.

Illustrator has solved this more elegantly and functionally by allowing you to mark one of the already selected objects as the »centre« by clicking on it, around which all further alignment operations will take place. They call it »Align to Key Object«. Here's a short clip of how it works. Here’s a video that explains its differences a little bit better compared to other alignment options present in Designer.

Please please pleeease Affinity, I need this QOL back in my process and would love to see it and in the Affinity Suite. 🥲

Cheers
Dennis

[fde101]

2 hours ago, Mr. Doodlezz said:

Space Horizontal/Vertical

Out of curiosity, how would you expect it to work for these commands?

These work on the space between objects at the two extremes (ex. the leftmost and rightmost if spacing horizontally) so there isn't really any way to use a "key" object for these as far as I can tell...

 

2 hours ago, Mr. Doodlezz said:

allowing you to mark one of the already selected objects as the »centre« by clicking on it, around which all further alignment operations will take place

This is exactly what "last selected" does: shift+click on one of the objects to de-select it then again to re-select it and it becomes the "last selected" and thus the "key" object.

 

As an alternative, consider turning on the "Show Alignment Handles" button on the context toolbar when using the move tool.  You can then drag the bottom alignment handle (for example) to align the bottoms of the objects, and it snaps to the top, center or bottom of any of the snapping candidates (or just place it arbitrarily even without snapping), allowing you to visually select where you want the objects to be aligned, potentially even to something that is not part of the selection.

[Mr. Doodlezz]

On 5/9/2023 at 3:45 PM, fde101 said:

Out of curiosity, how would you expect it to work for these commands?

These work on the space between objects at the two extremes (ex. the leftmost and rightmost if spacing horizontally) so there isn't really any way to use a "key" object for these as far as I can tell...

As it's rather hard to explain and would involve a lot of repetition of terms, I'd say this clip should answer your question. While at the same time showing why I think (much as it pains me to admit it) that Illustrator has a more intuitive approach to this than Designer's »First/Last Selected«, because in Illustrator you don't really have to think about »what to select first/last« to make the alignment work, you can just adjust it after the selection is made. In Designer you’d have to start over if you realise you haven’t selected the right shape from the beginning/end.

And especially with a growing number of objects, this gets ... messy.

On 5/9/2023 at 3:45 PM, fde101 said:

This is exactly what "last selected" does

Except it’s not exactly what »Last Selected« does.  Otherwise I wouldn't have opened this topic. Please also have a look at the linked article/clip, you can see how it works in detail. 😉

Last Selected, as the name suggests, orients shapes always and only to the last (or first) selected shape.
A Key Object can be freely switched between all active selected shapes on the fly, without having to re-add shapes.

See this clip.

 

[Mr. Doodlezz]

Ah, I think I see what made it appear like it’s the same as »Last Selected«! Watching the linked YouTube video I noticed it’s not really explaining what elevates it from »Last Selected«. I’ve updated it with a little bit better example. 😅
There's still no real demo of the distribution using anything other than the leftmost shape, which could be done even without selecting it as the key object - but I recorded that in my clip. The distribution works with any other key object. Like it's the centre from which the distribution happens.

[lepr]

9 hours ago, Mr. Doodlezz said:

I very dearly miss the ability to click on one of multiple selected shapes (especially in Designer and Publisher) in order to define it as some sort of »pivot« object, so to speak, around which all other alignments will happen

Key object is in Affinity 2 apps. Option/Alt-click one of the selected objects to make it the key object - it gets denoted by a thicker outline. Key object is used by alignments and by the command Cut Curves With Key Object.

[fde101]

45 minutes ago, ,,, said:

Option/Alt-click one of the selected objects to make it the key object - it gets denoted by a thicker outline. Key object is used by alignments and by the command Cut Curves With Key Object.

Interesting!

Thanks for pointing this out.

The context toolbar says to use the option key to "ignore snapping" - seems that the help text needs to be updated?

[Mr. Doodlezz]

5 hours ago, ,,, said:

Key object is in Affinity 2 apps. Option/Alt-click one of the selected objects to make it the key object - it gets denoted by a thicker outline. Key object is used by alignments and by the command Cut Curves With Key Object.

Wait, what? Wow, how did I miss this?! 😲

Thanks for pointing this out, I never realised!

However though right now these work with Align Horizontal/Vertical operations only. Better than nothing, now I’d like to see distribution as well.

[debraspicher]

2 hours ago, Mr. Doodlezz said:

Wait, what? Wow, how did I miss this?!

Their username is so unassuming, but they have come in with other gems in the past. I enjoy their responses. Even the snark.

I +1'ed your initial request for auto-distribute to key. You may be interested in editing your post (up to you).

Funny enough, @,,,'s method only works in the Context Toolbar for me, but not in the Toolbar version of the alignment functions which of course is what I would normally use. Weird.

Alignment handles might be helpful for your (or others') workflow also. Admittedly, breaking old AI habits is quite difficult, so I think keeping the key element method for all our alignment/distribution methods is good for helping newbies to transfer over their skills more easily. We have enough fun over here with just aligning to the "pixel grid".

[lepr]

31 minutes ago, debraspicher said:

Funny enough, @,,,'s method only works in the Context Toolbar for me, but not in the Toolbar version of the alignment functions which of course is what I would normally use. Weird.

Works for me (macOS) using both the Context Toolbar and the Toolbar.

[debraspicher]

6 minutes ago, ,,, said:

Works for me (macOS) using both the Context Toolbar and the Toolbar.

FWIW, I am using Beta (2.1.0.1790). It wouldn't surprise me if it's another Windows-only bug (for me). Unless I'm doing something wrong here.
 

[lepr]

5 minutes ago, debraspicher said:

Unless I'm doing something wrong here.

Different rather than wrong.

Using the individual alignment buttons in the toolbars, the target defaults to the selection bounds unless a key object has been marked.

In the Toolbar's drop down panel, you had the target set to 'Selection Bounds', but that needs to be 'First Selected' for a key object to be considered as target.

[Mr. Doodlezz]

4 hours ago, debraspicher said:

Their username is so unassuming, but they have come in with other gems in the past. I enjoy their responses. Even the snark.

I +1'ed your initial request for auto-distribute to key. You may be interested in editing your post (up to you).

Funny enough, @,,,'s method only works in the Context Toolbar for me, but not in the Toolbar version of the alignment functions which of course is what I would normally use. Weird.

Alignment handles might be helpful for your (or others') workflow also. Admittedly, breaking old AI habits is quite difficult, so I think keeping the key element method for all our alignment/distribution methods is good for helping newbies to transfer over their skills more easily. We have enough fun over here with just aligning to the "pixel grid".

@debraspicher, you speak from my heart! My very thoughts – all of them. 😅

That's also why I didn't react to the Alignment Handles. Though a good suggestion, I think that's a completely different matter, not related to my original subject.

I also edited the subject and description.

Like you I noticed that Key Objects only work for the Context Toolbar and added this to the description, along with a theory and possible solution of how it might work.

[lepr]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Doodlezz said:

Like you and @,,, I noticed that key objects only work for the context toolbar

I did not notice or state that! In fact, I contradicted it. Please edit your comment.

[Mr. Doodlezz]

3 minutes ago, ,,, said:

I did not notice or state that! In fact, I contradicted it. Please edit your comment.

Well, got you wrong then. 🤷‍♂️

At least for me there’s no way of getting them to work in the Toolbar popup.

[lepr]

1 minute ago, Mr. Doodlezz said:

At least for me there’s no way of getting them to work in the Toolbar popup.

Key object is ignored for distribution and spacing, but is effective for all other alignments. In the Toolbar popup, 'First Selected Object' will use a key object if one is marked, otherwise the first selected object is used as basis for alignment.

[Mr. Doodlezz]

Sorry, now I understood your comment! Time to get a coffee, sorry, it's too early for me. 🥴

Well, it's still a bit misleading, isn't it? How would you know that »First Selected« equals »Key Object«? 🤔

But the Spacing Vertical/Horizontal operation does not work with Key Objects, or did I miss it as well?

[lepr]

2 hours ago, Mr. Doodlezz said:

Well, it's still a bit misleading, isn't it? How would you know that »First Selected« equals »Key Object«? 🤔

Yes, it is a bit cryptic.

2 hours ago, Mr. Doodlezz said:

But the Spacing Vertical/Horizontal operation does not work with Key Objects, or did I miss it as well?

I wrote, "Key object is ignored for distribution and spacing, but is effective for all other alignments."

 

 

[fde101]

On 5/10/2023 at 4:17 AM, Mr. Doodlezz said:

But the Spacing Vertical/Horizontal operation does not work with Key Objects

Those commands space things evenly between the two ends of their shared bounding box.

How would that work with a key object?

It would make no difference at all in how the objects would be positioned - it is irrelevant to that operation.

 

In order to make it work, you would need to redefine the operation in some way:

• One option would be to have the current behavior of distributing within the bounds, but then adjust the position to match the new position of the key object to its old pre-distribution position.
• Another would be to manually specify the amount of spacing you want to have between objects before performing the operation, rather than having it calculated for you.

 

Either way this is a different function from what is currently offered.

[Mr. Doodlezz]

2 hours ago, fde101 said:

How would that work with a key object?

@fde101, asking the same question twice doesn’t change my first answer from three days ago – feel free to keep up. 😁

[fde101]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Doodlezz said:

my first answer from three days ago

Thanks, reviewing your clip again reminds me that my "another would be" option is actually available in that panel so that would in fact be a possibility  (I rarely use that panel so had lost track of that option being there).

For the more "normal" use of the distribute option the key object would be irrelevant, but when turning that off and using manual spacing, I agree that would be relevant and useful.

[ttl]

On 5/10/2023 at 10:17 AM, Mr. Doodlezz said:

But the Spacing Vertical/Horizontal operation does not work with Key Objects, or did I miss it as well?

It would be very useful if Spacing Vertical/Horizontal operation would work with Key Objects. As I don't see it in 2.3 Improvements, I would like to know, if Serif will work on it.

And @Mr. Doodlezz, thanks for this thread!