Please add the ability to Save JXR

[sacb0y]

JXR is the only format people can open as an HDR image without jumping through a bunch of hoops. JXL does not allow that, let us save with JXR please.

JXR is the most common mainstream HDR format thanks to Xbox. I dunno why HDR formats are so damned fragmented.

Please just let us save JXR I was so incredibly disappointed today when I found out I couldn't... There's literally NO WAY to make a JXR file outside of a F**king video game screenshot. I searched, there is nothing... Why...

If you guys added the option to save JXR you would be across the entire internet THE ONLY OPTION FOR DOING THIS. Adobe is dragging their feet.

[myclay]

Both german and english wiki entries have quite different tools listed for this file format and the import and export support;

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_XR#Anwendungsunterstützung

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_XR#Software_support

 

 

[sacb0y]

Import and export support but often not import of HDR images, or the export comes out SDR. I've tried some solutions their support is inconsistent for actual HDR images.

Other stuff is just old like the damn photoshop plugin works on CS6 cause it's from 2013, doesn't work on any recent version.

Maybe gimp is viable 🤔

[sacb0y]

Nope GIMP plugin has the same damn problem, saved an SDR image >:/

None of the solutions on that page are remotely decent at getting an actual HDR image. It might be cause some of their implementations are extremely old.

[sacb0y]

Look at this, people have been BAFFLED by this for YEARS!

Affinity, you could solve a years old problem!

[NotMyFault]

It seems this format has been essentially abandoned even by the creator (Microsoft) as it is unsupported by almost all modern software (e.g. browsers) outside its extreme niche in gaming. Affinity stated in ca. 2018 that support for game development is not their top priority, as too many changes in the core architecture would be required for that target group.

Best luck for your feature request.

[sacb0y]

It's abandoned on the software side but supported in a lot of other ways. AVIF has the same problems. 

JXR works on windows 10-11 with the default photo app in full HDR display, it's supported on Xbox and nvidia shield, edge supports JXR, so it's not Microsoft ignoring it entirely. I would wager the vast majority of consumer HDR image files is JXR.

AVIF while supported by photoshop requires an extremely specific process using Camera Raw to export an image like that, but also no default photoviewer on windows supports the format. AVIF is supported on browsers but it's extremely rare to see it, and it's not supported on edge. 

Neither of these formats work on phones which basically all have HDR displays.

There's an inconsistent format support here, but to me JXR is the best bet since it technically should be everywhere. And it's the only format supported by default at least on PC.

My purpose is I want to make HDR art.

[fde101]

The JPEG family is primarily intended for photographic images, and very few cameras exist which can shoot in HDR without relying on bracketed exposures being combined either in-camera or through use of software later on.  The very few which can do so tend to be very expensive and even then just barely qualify as HDR.

Accordingly JPEG XR is kind of a strange format to begin with, and while it may have some measure of merit, it has been largely rejected by the industry and is not really seeing widespread use.

The JPEG XL format *does* support HDR (32-bit image storage) and is supported by the Affinity suite, but much like JPEG XR, is not seeing the universal industry support that one might hope for.  It is much more promising than JPEG XR, but right now there really are not any universally accepted compressed distribution formats for HDR images.

There are a number of more widespread formats capable of storing HDR images, such as TIFF, Radiance and EXR, with the common trait that they are not compressed to the same extent that the JPEG formats are (TIFF when used for HDR is not really compressed at all).  All three of these formats support 32-bit HDR output from the Affinity suite.

 

On the subject of JPEG XL, see also:

 

[Screen Monkey]

Ability to save as jxr

Weirdly the only programme  I've ever seen that saves as jpegxr is paint.net (an old side-lined by Microsoft project still available for Windows). it  also saves as avif if required. It's obviously not as versatile as Affinity but could provide a workaround for HDR art.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Screen Monkey
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[myclay]

2 hours ago, sacb0y said:

I want to make HDR art.

Good to know, you could look into the Jpeg XL fileformat inside Affinity Photo. import as well as export is supported.
Affinity Photo allows exporting HDR JXLs using 32-bit float pixel data.

  

1 hour ago, fde101 said:

but much like JPEG XR, is not seeing the universal industry support that one might hope for.

Google (Chromium) so far seems to be against Jpeg XL.

https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1178058

 

[sacb0y]

1 hour ago, myclay said:

Good to know, you could look into the Jpeg XL fileformat inside Affinity Photo. import as well as export is supported.
Affinity Photo allows exporting HDR JXLs using 32-bit float pixel data.

 

The problem is distribution, JXR is the ONLY format you can view on an image viewer in HDR without using a photo editing program. It works by default in Windows 10 and Windows 11, JPEG XL does not. 

I can give people a JXR file, and while they may have to download it to view it, it at least will open in windows photos app in HDR with no additional work from the user besides needing HDR turned on, on their PC.

It is the most user friendly solution available, and it would be usable for now until all these platforms get their shit together.

[sacb0y]

2 hours ago, Screen Monkey said:

Weirdly the only programme  I've ever seen that saves as jpegxr is paint.net (an old side-lined by Microsoft project still available for Windows). it  also saves as avif if required. It's obviously not as versatile as Affinity but could provide a workaround for HDR art.

I will look into this but somehow i doubt it will output an actual HDR file.

[sacb0y]

Like just to illustrate, here's a JXR from Destiny

https://www.dropbox.com/s/91ez3lffb1ooc9a/Destiny 2 1_7_2023 1_40_31 PM.jxr?dl=0

At the very least on windows, if you have an HDR display you can open this image and it just works (also works if you have an SDR display it tone maps). While it's not ideal to distribute this way in the age of the internet, it is a solution until demand makes these sites and browsers fix their shit.

No other format lets you do this.

[fde101]

6 minutes ago, sacb0y said:

Like just to illustrate, here's a JXR from call of duty

Here is part of that image as displayed by GraphicConverter on my Mac (the entire image basically looks like this):

 

This is in spite of GraphicConverter being a long-standing "Swiss army knife" for handling a wide range of image file formats.

 

Most of my applications won't even try to open it - Corel Painter, Pixelmator Pro, Preview, etc.

The only ones I have on my Mac that seem to display it correctly, curiously enough, are the Affinity products.

 

12 minutes ago, sacb0y said:

it is a solution

only for Windows users.

[sacb0y]

16 minutes ago, fde101 said:

only for Windows users.

Well, what's the solution for mac? What image format opens in whatever the default mac image viewer is in HDR effectively out the box?

[fde101]

13 minutes ago, sacb0y said:

What image format opens in whatever the default mac image viewer is in HDR effectively out the box?

EXR

[sacb0y]

3 hours ago, fde101 said:

EXR

Thats like double the size tho lol. But fair enough.

[Screen Monkey]

Ability to save as jxr

I've been checking out jxr saves using an Affinity generated image exported from Photo as a trial. Image was exported as an A4 300dpi jpeg, (tif also works) opened in Paint.net then saved as a 32bit jxr. Same procedure works fine from Designer using either tif or jpeg. Workaround?

JXR Trial.jxr

Edited March 10, 2023 by Screen Monkey
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[sacb0y]

5 minutes ago, Screen Monkey said:

I've been checking out jxr saves using an Affinity generated image exported from Photo as a trial. Image was exported as an A4 300dpi jpeg, (tif also works) opened in Paint.net then saved as a 32bit jxr. Same procedure works fine from Designer using either tif or jpeg. Workaround?

JXR Trial.jxr 1.79 MB · 0 downloads

I decided to cave and try paint.net from a HDR tif file, and it does what I expected outputs an SDR image. Based on the way the image looks when its loaded I assume the program dumps the 32bit color data when it loads and can't save it. And paint.net doesn't support any HDR or EXR formats either. 

[Screen Monkey]

Ability to save as jxr

Worth a try - I'll keep looking...

Edited March 10, 2023 by Screen Monkey
category not defined

[sacb0y]

I even tried blender which for some reason supports a format called Jpeg 2000 which supports 16-bit color but nothing can read it lmao. 

 

Whats funny is, windows photo viewer can read an HDR TIF file, but it does not display it in HDR even though it can tell it's an HDR file. It does the same thing with 16bit PNGs.

[fde101]

Consider also that JPEG XR is not officially supported any longer in Edge, IE is basically gone, and no web browsers which are not from Microsoft support the format: https://caniuse.com/?search=jpegxr

The future of the JPEG XR format is bleak.

ImageMagick can apparently be built to support it, but from what I am finding, a "normal" build of it does not include this format (mostly due to lack of interest in it).

[sacb0y]

Wait it was removed from edge?! But then why doesn't windows photo app open jpegXL!!!!? Why doesn't jpegxl work on anything?!

This whole thing is maddening...

Avif at least works on most browsers but edge, but for some reason I just don't expect any website to go out of their way for support so I mostly want desktop solutions.

I have resorted to complaining to Microsoft about it on their feedback hub. please upvote it.

https://aka.ms/AAjwahq

[myclay]

23 hours ago, sacb0y said:

But then why doesn't windows photo app open jpegXL!!!!? Why doesn't jpegxl work on anything?!

It works in multiple Editing Programs like for example with Affinity Photo.
Jpeg XL is a brand new file format. In March 2022 it was standardized.

Jpeg XL got its documentation update roughly a month ago.
https://ds.jpeg.org/whitepapers/jpeg-xl-whitepaper.pdf

Regarding support; Facebook, Adobe,Serif, Intel,Vesa,Krita, The Guardian, libvis,Cloudinary,Shopify and others have shown their support for Jpeg XL.
https://cloudinary.com/blog/the-case-for-jpeg-xl

 

For example; Adobe recommends Jpeg XL for HDR output.

https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/using/hdr-output.html

 

[fde101]

On 3/8/2023 at 2:06 AM, sacb0y said:

This whole thing is maddening...

Not too surprising that the 'net crowd is not jumping at the chance to support HDR.  They are obsessed with reducing bandwidth and having file formats that retain additional details is largely the antithesis of that.  As a result we see threads begging for support for formats like WebP whose primary function is to reduce file size so that less bandwidth is consumed.

Web hosts often charge for bandwidth used so reducing file sizes means a lower cost for hosting the site.  It also means the site loads faster into web browsers as there is less data for the clients to receive.

HDR isn't really a priority for most web designers, and thus for most web browsers.

 

JPEG XL isn't really supported by any browsers yet either:  https://caniuse.com/jpegxl

8-bit only WebP on the other hand: https://caniuse.com/webp