Color Space

[CharlesG]

Hello,

I find myself a bit confused about to handle color space while editing in affinity photo.

My current method is to load a RAW image and convert to Adobe RGB (1998) in the developer persona.  I read that this is the best way to render colour while editing, that is provides a wider color space.  Is this true?

When it comes to exporting a final image from the photo persona I am not sure the best way to handle the color space at that point.  Should I be converting to a specific color space depending on the destination of the image, whether is be web, print or otherwise?

Should I be converting to this colour space earlier in the process if I know in advance that I'll be printing for example?  

Any advice on this issue is greatly appreciated.

Thank!

[RichardMH]

As far as I know, ROMM RGB is the largest color space. I have that set in Color Preferences. For print I use Adobe RGB (1998) or ROMM RGB (a lot of printers can handle it) and for the web sRGB. I've been told to use the largest color space for editing then convert for whatever use, (and use soft proofing)

[Palatino]

5 hours ago, CharlesG said:

Should I be converting to this colour space earlier in the process if I know in advance that I'll be printing for example?

There is no such thing as "too late" for color space conversion, but there is very much a "too early".

[CharlesG]

That's interesting Palatino, can you elaborate on this?  What happens when you convert too early and when in the process is it "too early"?

[Palatino]

Too early is always when image information is lost that would be needed later. It makes sense that the image should still be suitable for all applications at the end of the processing.

For example, converting to cmyk too early can make it difficult to use the image in other media later. Even a change in printing technique can then result in inferior print quality.

[CharlesG]

Ok, so do you stay with the default color space throughout editing and then convert once you have a finished image?

For me, when I open a RAW file in the develop persona the color space is sRGB.  Should I keep this colour space throughout editing and into the photo persona?  Should my default color space be something other than sRGB when opening a RAW file?

I'm sure you saw above that RichardMH recommended switching to ROMM RGB, as it is the largest color space.

[Old Bruce]

8 minutes ago, CharlesG said:

I'm sure you saw above that RichardMH recommended switching to ROMM RGB, as it is the largest color space.

RichardMH also said parenthetically "a lot of printers can handle it" which may mean a lot of printers cannot handle it.

12 minutes ago, CharlesG said:

Ok, so do you stay with the default color space throughout editing and then convert once you have a finished image?

Staying with a large colour space then converting to a smaller, or even a different model, at the end of the editing would be part of best practices.

[Blake_S]

Quote

For print I use Adobe RGB (1998) or ROMM RGB (a lot of printers can handle it) and for the web sRGB.

What do you mean by "can handle it"?

If its a printer with 4 inks for example, it will not print anything outside of CMYK space, which is less than sRGB, and way less than Adobe RGB.
Like if there is a toxic green color, its impossible to print that.

[CharlesG]

Another question for you all as I am working through this.  When in the photo persona, what is the difference between assign ICC profile, and convert format/ICC profile?

[Palatino]

9 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

… would be part of best practices.

Good keyword: 

There is nothing wrong with a very large color space, even Adobe RGB is never wrong.

I work with sRGB throughout, but don't want to recommend it to everyone. For me, it works for web as well as for jobs for printers (then I convert to cmyk myself, as the printer wants).

Unless you know exactly the strengths and weaknesses of each color space and consider them in all exports, sRGB is a good choice.

[v_kyr]

11 minutes ago, CharlesG said:

Another question for you all as I am working through this.  When in the photo persona, what is the difference between assign ICC profile, and convert format/ICC profile?

See:

• Color Management
• Color Models

[Blake_S]

14 hours ago, CharlesG said:

whether is be web, print or otherwise?

If its for web, use sRGB.

Here is an example of what can happen with AdobeRGB:

https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/adobe-rgb.htm

For print it depends, you should ask the place where you will be printing.

[Palatino]

18 minutes ago, Blake_S said:

Here is an example of what can happen with AdobeRGB:

https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/adobe-rgb.htm

Wow!

Quote

After some experimentation, even I discovered that default sRGB was plenty for everything I did, and eliminated the chance for grave errors.

Two thumbs!

[v_kyr]

57 minutes ago, CharlesG said:

Should my default color space be something other than sRGB when opening a RAW file?

I'm sure you saw above that RichardMH recommended switching to ROMM RGB, as it is the largest color space.

Read the following article about color management, which deals with the different color spaces their pros/cons etc., it gives a good common overview here! - Note that ROMM RGB = ProPhoto RGB here!

• Fine Art printing, part 2 Color Management (Google translated to english)

• Drucken, Fine Art Printing, Teil 2 Farbmanagement (German original article)

[RichardMH]

6 hours ago, Blake_S said:

What do you mean by "can handle it"?

If its a printer with 4 inks for example, it will not print anything outside of CMYK space, which is less than sRGB, and way less than Adobe RGB.
Like if there is a toxic green color, its impossible to print that.

When I accidentally sent a ROMM RGB image to my local printer then e-mailed to say I'd made a mistake he said it was OK and he could print it. He has ink jet printers for art printing and wants RGB rather than CMYK. My home printer set up will print ProPhoto/ROMM RGB images.

[Blake_S]

10 hours ago, RichardMH said:

When I accidentally sent a ROMM RGB image to my local printer then e-mailed to say I'd made a mistake he said it was OK and he could print it. He has ink jet printers for art printing and wants RGB rather than CMYK. My home printer set up will print ProPhoto/ROMM RGB images.

Well, there is a difference between "we could print it" and "we guarantee that the colors will be printed correctly" - these are two separate cases.

As an example, we have a Ricoh laser printer which uses 4 regular inks (CMYK) + 1 special optional ink (like gold/silver/white/etc.)

Its software supports 6 different RBG color spaces + any CMYK color spaces.
So, we can print both RGB and CMYK files.

However, with RGB, we cannot guarantee that all colors will be printed correctly, since the most saturated colors are impossible to print.
Inks are just not bright enough.
They will be converted to whatever the printer can actually output, and the result might look completely different.

Like 255G - toxic green, or 255G 255B - light blue, can't print them, they will be way duller on print compared to what's on screen.
So in our case, its better if submitted files are in CMYK, since then all colors can be printed and there is no "surprise" color conversions.

Meanwhile, Inkjet printers should be able to print brighter colors, so they will print RGB color space more accurately.

In conclusion, inquire what type of printer is used first, and then request some test prints.