Publisher Package Files and Font Management Inconsistencies

[walt.farrell]

This is a follow-on question from the discussion that started in https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/157866-please-add-pdfx-32003-support-for-rgb-color-space-with-flattened-files and I'm using the sample file uploaded by the OP there in this post:

I unzipped that .zip file, then opened the inner ExampleDocument directory, then Opened the ExampleHandouts.afpackage file, and got this summary display:

Switching to the Fonts section, I see (2 screenshots, second one scrolled down):

As we can see, Publisher is offering to install 10 fonts, the 8 that are Missing and the 2 that are Restricted (which also show as "Missing").

Just as an experiment, I untick all the Install boxes. This should give me 10 missing fonts after I click OK.

First thing I do not understand: Why does the Summary say there are no Missing fonts, when the Font list shows there are 8 (or 10, counting the restricted ones). Even after I untick the Install boxes in the Font section, the Summary says 0 missing fonts.

By the way, there was no "toast" warning me of Missing Fonts and offering to open the Font Manager. But perhaps that's not considered necessary since I had the opportunity to look while that dialog was open? But it feels a bit odd.

 

Continuing the experiment, I open the Font Manager, and it agrees I have 10 missing fonts:

I then check the Preflight panel, and I find these 14 missing font errors listed:

 

Additional things I do not understand:

1. If there were only 10 missing fonts when opening the file, why does Preflight show 14 missing?
    
2. While opening the file, and in the Font Manager after opening, Helvetica Neue was listed as missing. No other Helvetica type fonts were listed as missing or in the document. Why, in Preflight, do I also have Helvetica, Helvetica-Bold, and Helvetica-Oblique listed as missing?

Next, I look at missing fonts in two other ways. First, in the Character Panel:

10 missing fonts, all shown with ? before their names.

And in the Find & Replace panel, which agrees on the font names, but omits the ? before their names (though earlier one of them, Brix Slab, had the ? here, too):

I just managed to get one showing with a ? in that dialog. And it's one that didn't even show up before:

 

The investigation really started with wondering why in that Find dialog I can't look for italic, bold, etc. for missing fonts as @Wosven brought up in the original topic mentioned above. But I think it may just be that there's not enough information in the document, when the font is truly missing, to know those details.

But this is long enough, so I think I'll stop, at least for now

 

[R C-R]

2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

Continuing the experiment, I open the Font Manager, and it agrees I have 10 missing fonts:

Weirdly, for me on my Mac it says status is OK for all fonts, including the ones shown as missing elsewhere.

2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

I then check the Preflight panel, and I find these 14 missing font errors listed:

And just to make it that much weirder, for me Preflight shows no missing fonts!

At this point I gave up trying to understand what was happening or why. 

[walt.farrell]

37 minutes ago, R C-R said:

At this point I gave up trying to understand what was happening or why. 

Did you remember to untick all the Install boxes in the dialog when you opened the package?

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

Did you remember to untick all the Install boxes in the dialog when you opened the package?

I did nothing but open the file after unzipping it. I did not want to take it any farther than that.

[walt.farrell]

23 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I did nothing but open the file after unzipping it. I did not want to take it any farther than that.

But if you don't untick the Install boxes, then all the missing fonts are automatically installed. So of course nothing is missing once it's opened.

You have a choice of whether to install them, and if you don't then you should see the inconsistent behavior that I'm trying to understand. The application should behave consistently (though, if course, differently) whichever option the user chooses.

[R C-R]

7 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

But if you don't untick the Install boxes, then all the missing fonts are automatically installed.

Sorry. I had not noticed that there were "Install" boxes -- in the version of APub installed on my Mac, the Package Document window is so narrow that only "Inst" shows without scrolling; however, it appears that none of the files shown as missing & (I assume) checked there actually were installed. At least FontBook on my Mac can't find them. 

I admit, I have never opened an afpackage file before, & I do not know how it is supposed to work.

[R C-R]

Just in case it is not yet clear, I do not even know what "Restricted" or "Modified" means in the Package Document window, or for that matter if it is possible to open that window once the document package has been opened.

There is probably something in the APub help about this but I have not yet taken the time to look for it.

[walt.farrell]

https://affinity.help/publisher/en-US.lproj/pages/Publishing/aboutPackaging.html

 

[walt.farrell]

Restricted: https://affinity.help/publisher/en-US.lproj/pages/Publishing/creatingPackages.html#dialogStatuses

Modified is less clear, as the Help different address it for fonts (or I missed it). I'm guessing it means you have the font, but a different version. The package default of Install would then mean that you'll end up using the same version as the original author and will have better compatibility.

[R C-R]

8 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

https://affinity.help/publisher/en-US.lproj/pages/Publishing/aboutPackaging.html

Neither that nor the 'see also' links makes clear a number of things, like why in the "A package's contents" section of the 'about' topic states that the package will include "A folder named Fonts containing available fonts used by your document." For me, the Fonts folder in the unzipped package did not include the Brix font, & while it did include the Cambria one, there were also a handful of fonts already installed on my Mac (although they might have been other versions).

Also, in https://affinity.help/publisher/en-US.lproj/pages/Publishing/creatingPackages.html, it says about "Modified"

Quote

Modified—an image has changed outside of Affinity Publisher and has not been updated within the document. 

That applies to images but what it means for fonts is still a mystery to me.

But please keep in mind that like I said, currently I am not particularly interested in taking the time to try to sort this out on my own, or even to wade through the help topics to figure it out.

[walt.farrell]

5 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Neither that nor the 'see also' links makes clear a number of things, like why in the "A package's contents" section of the 'about' topic states that the package will include "A folder named Fonts containing available fonts used by your document."

My interpretation: when you create the package, it will contain all the fonts you've used, that allow embedding, and that are installed on your system.

If your documents uses a font you do not have installed, the package will not include it.

9 minutes ago, R C-R said:

For me, the Fonts folder in the unzipped package did not include the Brix font, & while it did include the Cambria one, there were also a handful of fonts already installed on my Mac (although they might have been other versions).

I'll have to look at that.

But note that the folder came from the package, and it's contents relate to the document, not to what's installed on your system, as the recipient of the package.

12 minutes ago, R C-R said:

But please keep in mind that like I said, currently I am not particularly interested in taking the time to try to sort this out on my own, or even to wade through the help topics to figure it out.

Yes, I understand and appreciate that

[R C-R]

6 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

If your documents uses a font you do not have installed, the package will not include it.

OK, so where does the 'restricted' Brix Slab font come from? It is not installed on my system, nor is it in the Fonts folder of the unzipped ExampleDocument folder.

[walt.farrell]

43 minutes ago, R C-R said:

OK, so where does the 'restricted' Brix Slab font come from? It is not installed on my system, nor is it in the Fonts folder of the unzipped ExampleDocument folder.

It is in the Fonts folder of the Package file, with the name .17096.otf.

[R C-R]

27 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

It is in the Fonts folder of the Package file, with the name .17096.otf.

Like I said above it is not there for me. This is what I get after unzipping the ExampleDocument file I downloaded from the other topic:

None of those fonts show as installed on my system if I open them in Font Book, so I assume all but the Cambria one are different versions of ones with the same name I do have installed.

But there is nothing else in that Fonts folder.

[walt.farrell]

Strange. This is what I have in the unzipped file from here:

Perhaps Finder doesn't like to show files that start with a "."?

[Wosven]

I have those heighteen fonts also.

Usually, OS tend to hide file beginning by "." since they usually are hidden, being configuration files on Linux or OSX. OS X system will also add text file containing some datas and beginning by "._" (I suppose it's in the registry for Windows).

So, those fonts with name beginning by a point seems strange. I'm wondering if it's the same on OS X, or if it's a way to hide them or avoid them being copied in other situations (usually, you can't copy fonts from OS X, if they are installed).

[R C-R]

46 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Perhaps Finder doesn't like to show files that start with a "."?

Yeah, that was it. On Macs, you can force Finder windows to show fonts hidden because they start with a period using the shortcut CMD+Shift+ period, so when I did that all the onces you showed beginning with them appeared for me.

But I think it is an odd way to handle such things, because once I do that to show those fonts, I think I can install them using Font Book. (I'm not going to try that because of possible problems!)

[walt.farrell]

2 hours ago, R C-R said:

But I think it is an odd way to handle such things, because once I do that to show those fonts, I think I can install them using Font Book. (I'm not going to try that because of possible problems!)

I believe that Opening the package file is supposed to install them locally (if you don't mess with the Install checkboxes) for use in that Publisher session while you have the package open.

[walt.farrell]

10 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I assume that is the way it is supposed to work but see my screenshot above showing Brix Slab open in the Mac Font Book & the (I assume) functional "Install Font" button. It is as if for the Mac version they just assumed that hiding the font from Finder with the leading period would be enough to prevent it being installed for use in other documents.

I am not concerned (in this topic) about users "cheating" and using the package files in unexpected ways (that is, outside of the interfaces provided by Publisher for use within the application).

I am only concerned with using them within Publisher