Symbol Variants

[shushustorm]

Hey everyone!

 

Note that the following is just an example to illustrate the need of this feature. The real world scenarios can be far more complex and therefore making this much more useful.

I'd like to be able to:

- Create a green apple

- Make it a symbol

- Duplicate the green apple

- Make the duplicate a variant of the green apple

- Turn syncing to variant only (not syncing all, not syncing off!)

- Make the variant red *

- Turn the syncing back to syncing all

- Duplicate green and red apples a few times, arrange them

- Now, be able to

--> edit the green apples' shape and the red apples change their shapes as well

--> edit the red apples' shape and the green apples change their shapes as well

--> edit the green apples' color without changing the color of the red apples

--> edit the red apples' color without changing the color of the green apples.

 

This is just an example. Being able to selectively sync with inheritance would make Symbols a much more flexible feature.

 

(* this should automatically add a new symbol, which is linked to the original one synching

- all the data that hasn't been edited while variant syncing to all instances, including original as well as all variants

- only the specific variant's data that has been edited while variant syncing to all instances of that variant).

 

Best wishes,

Shu

 

This feature should even make things like this obsolete:

 

[GarryP]

It seems like you have now created three feedback threads over the last week or so which are for basically the same thing.
Is that correct?

[shushustorm]

5 hours ago, GarryP said:

It seems like you have now created three feedback threads over the last week or so which are for basically the same thing.
Is that correct?

If you are talking about

1. Symbol Variants

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/155859-symbol-variants/

2. Nested Symbols

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/155795-nested-symbols/

3. Sync only some Symbols

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/155481-sync-only-some-symbols/

, then no, those are not the same at all. Each one faces a different issue and each one suggest its separate solution to that issue.
Not having read a lot of the new feature releases of Affinity software the last few years, I was quite surprised they haven't implemented "Nested Symbols" yet, since it's not that much further development wise, yet makes the feature much more profound.
While "Symbol Variants" and "Sync only some symbols" have their own issues and solutions, I guess "Symbol Variants" would be a much more powerful feature, since it can also solve the core of the "Sync only some symbols" issue. It doesn't solve all of it, but with "Symbol Variants", it'd be possible to work around that problem with some more time investment (not perfect, but at least possible). So I'd say the variants are a better solution compared to syncing only some symbols. That said, "Sync only some symbols" would be easier to implement.

[Old Bruce]

22 hours ago, shushustorm said:

Now, be able to

--> edit the green apples' shape and the red apples change their shapes as well

--> edit the red apples' shape and the green apples change their shapes as well

--> edit the green apples' color without changing the color of the red apples

--> edit the red apples' color without changing the color of the green apples.

 

For the last one just use Global colours.

All this can be done at present.

[shushustorm]

Alright, - besides making the workflow much more confusing having to sync colors separately from the symbols themselves - then I don't want green apples and red apples, but apples with a light green to dark green gradient, 5px outline and 5% Gaussian Blur and apples with a light red to dark red gradient, a 10px outline and 2% Gaussian Blur, the latter of which grouped with a leaf. As I stated initially, I just wanted to make an example to illustrate a use case. But since any suggestion I make here turns into nitpicking, completely losing the essence of what I am suggesting, debating any further doesn't seem to make any sense.

[Old Bruce]

28 minutes ago, shushustorm said:

I just wanted to make an example to illustrate a use case.

But your example could be done using the the currently available tools.

After your moving of your goalposts I still think that example could be done today. But what is the point.

[shushustorm]

Well, then prove it showing a screen recording. Seriously, I'd be glad if you were right. It'd be great if this could be done already. But having debated enough about "Sync only some Symbols" with repeated statements this would be possible already, but lacking proof thereof, it really seems to be just disagreeing for the sake of it.

[Old Bruce]

On 1/17/2022 at 11:24 AM, shushustorm said:

Now, be able to

--> edit the green apples' shape and the red apples change their shapes as well

--> edit the red apples' shape and the green apples change their shapes as well

--> edit the green apples' color without changing the color of the red apples

--> edit the red apples' color without changing the color of the green apples.

Apple Symbols v3.afdesign

I chose to edit the Green Apples' colour instead of the Red Apples . I have included the file so you can try it yourself.

Please no moving the goalposts.

[shushustorm]

Just a few things:

1. You're still trying to "prove" my original, fictional, example "wrong". This is not a topic posted in the Help section. This is a Feature Request. The situation mentioned is, as I stated numerous times already, just there to show a use case. There is no "moving goalposts" when there is another use case mentioned. Trying to prove a feature request wrong, you'd have to prove any use case wrong there could possibly be. The goal is the feature, not solving one specific scenario. I ran into dozens of situations where I could have made great use of Symbol Variants, be it speeding up my workflow tremendously, be it making a specific artwork feasible in the first place.

2. I appreciate your artistic use of Designer's tools, but using global colors combined with a rect just to project the color via a gradient layer adjusting said color only to do something that should be done with merely a mindless push of a button, is painful to watch. Just being able to do something doesn't make it viable within a workflow. I can also adjust each apple individually without any symbols whatsoever and get the same end result. Yet, I am using Designer to get things done. Can a farmer harvest his crops with his bare hands? Sure. But I guess he'd rather not. It's not just much more time consuming in itself - both by pure labor as well as having to put your thought to it -, but more error prone as well the more needlessly complex things become. Not to mention I may not even want the same green and red hues for the darker tones. I may want more of an orange red for the red apples in the lighter areas. Of course, you can go ahead and add yet another adjustment. But I don't want the same hue offset on the green apples. What now? Not possible, I guess. Not feasible, I am quite sure.

3. The apples are still missing their differently sized outlines and Gaussian Blur of different strengths, including a leaf on only one of them, which also syncs only across one type of apple.

[Old Bruce]

7 minutes ago, shushustorm said:

This is a Feature Request

The thing is ... if some one wrote a feature request requesting an already implemented feature I would point out that the feature is already there.

To be perfectly honest your request is ...

On 1/17/2022 at 11:24 AM, shushustorm said:

Being able to selectively sync with inheritance would make Symbols a much more flexible feature.

... is it not?

[shushustorm]

1 minute ago, Old Bruce said:

To be perfectly honest your request is ...

... is it not?

Yes it is. How is that possible already?

I want to sync some data to all instances of both the root symbol as well as each of its variants and some things should only be adjusted on a variant level, with the root data still being mirrored to all instances.

[Old Bruce]

12 minutes ago, shushustorm said:

Yes it is. How is that possible already?

I want to sync some data to all instances of both the root symbol as well as each of its variants and some things should only be adjusted on a variant level, with the root data still being mirrored to all instances.

I honestly believe that I have shown that it is possible. I probably built a more robust symbol than was actually needed but then it is a more robust symbol.

Granted there isn't the simple push of a button, there is work to do. The Symbol must be un-synced then re-synced. The colour must be changed on the un-synced version.

I don't know where the 'button' would be to facilitate changing the colour of the green apples, or the red apples. 

[shushustorm]

You showed that you were able to reach the suggested behaviour for a very narrow use case with an interesting, yet incredibly inefficient workaround. You did not show that the suggested feature, which includes being able to sync any data, not just plain colors or gradients without hue shift, is possible already.

I want to be able to sync all data available on a variant level, in a simple, straight forward way.

You did something like this:
- Create global color
- Create rect
- Make rect child of the apple
- Assign color to rect
- Add another rect
- Make that one a child of the apple
- Add gradient to second rect
- Set blend mode for first rect

Whereas I simply want to
- Adjust gradient of the apple

That's about 8 steps instead of 1.

Instead of turning off syncing completely, read my original post how I suggest variants to be implemented:
"
(* this should automatically add a new symbol, which is linked to the original one synching

- all the data that hasn't been edited while variant syncing to all instances, including original as well as all variants

- only the specific variant's data that has been edited while variant syncing to all instances of that variant).
"

[Old Bruce]

2 hours ago, shushustorm said:

I want to be able to sync all data available on a variant level, in a simple, straight forward way.

All data available...

I have a simple one curved corner rectangle made into a symbol. How many separate datum are there in that symbol.

Corner, type and amount I also put two strokes and two fills on it using the Appearance panel. One stroke and one fill are solid colours with transparency and noise the other two are gradients. The strokes each have a pressure curve and are not aligned in the same manner. There are blending differences...

All sorts of things to use to make a variant with. I don't know how I would start to make "a simple straightforward way" of making and changing variants of this symbol made out of one rectangle. I am going to have to dig deep into the structure to do anything, but then that will be applied to all the symbols.