Nested Symbols

[shushustorm]

Hey everyone!

I'd like to suggest supporting Nested Symbols.

Let's take a branch of a tree, for example. Right now, I can create a leaf, make it a symbol, duplicate it, edit one - all instances show the changes.

However, I'd like to be able to

- Put some leaves into a group

- Put another shape into the group ("Branch Shape")

- Make the group a new Symbol ("Branch")

- Duplicate "Branch"

- Now, be able to do both:

---> edit all the leaves by editing one leaf on one "Branch" instance

---> edit all the branches by editing one "Branch Shape" within one "Branch" instance.

 

This would make the Symbols feature much more flexible and much more useful.

 

Some references where this has been partly discussed:

Best wishes,

Shu

[Old Bruce]

A few questions because from your description saying what you want to be able to do I honestly don't find any problem with Designer's Symbols as they are now.

56 minutes ago, shushustorm said:

---> edit all the leaves by editing one leaf on one "Branch" instance

By edit do you mean change the colour of the fill and the stroke. Change the stroke width and add strokes using the Appearance panel. Change the dimensions/size. Change the rotation and shear. Or something else I have missed.

Same questions apply to the Branch.

Some edits can be achieved if the curve is grouped before becoming a Symbol, you then edit the group not the curve. Other edits require drilling down to the curve and editing that. Some edits don't matter which is chosen.

58 minutes ago, shushustorm said:

Let's take a branch of a tree, for example. Right now, I can create a leaf, make it a symbol, duplicate it, edit one - all instances show the changes.

However, I'd like to be able to

- Put some leaves into a group

Are these leaves going into the group all the same Symbol or are they just leaves which are not yet symbols?

[shushustorm]

2 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

A few questions because from your description saying what you want to be able to do I honestly don't find any problem with Designer's Symbols as they are now.

By edit do you mean change the colour of the fill and the stroke. Change the stroke width and add strokes using the Appearance panel. Change the dimensions/size. Change the rotation and shear. Or something else I have missed.

Same questions apply to the Branch.

Some edits can be achieved if the curve is grouped before becoming a Symbol, you then edit the group not the curve. Other edits require drilling down to the curve and editing that. Some edits don't matter which is chosen.

Are these leaves going into the group all the same Symbol or are they just leaves which are not yet symbols?

It's quite simple: I want symbol syncing functionality on different levels within the same hierarchy. Symbol syncing includes all properties that are synced by symbol declarations. I wrote the leaves and branches example just to illustrate the situation. To keep the illustration, I want - but not limited to this - be able to

- change one leaf's color, rotation, position relative to its current object position and that's mirrored to all instances

- mirror a leave and sync this to all instances

- mirror, recolor, rotate, reposition a branch (the shape within the symbol that also contains a bunch of leaves attached to the branch) and sync this to all branches

- .... just any change a symbol would sync.

Being more specific in listing all of the properties doesn't really have any use. Just symbol functionality within the same hierarchy on different levels with the changes being applied to all instances of each of the symbols. Also, of course, regarding one of your questions. I want to be able to, just like any symbol does

- change any shape located within the symbol as well as

- change any group within the symbol.

2 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

Are these leaves going into the group all the same Symbol or are they just leaves which are not yet symbols?

It doesn't really matter, both should work if Nested Symbols were implemented.

Let's say I have the following Symbols:

- Branch

- Leaf_Green

- Leaf_Orange

 

The Symbols themselves would contain:

- Branch:

--> Branch Shape

--> Leaves (Group)

---> Leaf_Green (10 duplicates)

---> Leaf_Orange (10 duplicates)

- Leaf_Green:

--> Base

--> Detail

- Leaf_Orange:

--> Base

--> Detail

 

The Symbols could be used like this:

- Branch (10 duplicates)

- Leaf_Green (50 duplicates)

- Leaf_Orange (20 duplicates)

to add some more leaves that aren't within a branch to get some variety. But still, one should be able to change the leaf shape's properties (any of which!) or a branch shape's properties (any of which!) or even the branch setup and mirror all changes to each instance. Let's say I want a branch to contain a sub branch and I change the branch symbol to

- Branch:

--> Branch Shape

--> Branch Shape small

--> Branch Shape small 2

--> Leaves (Group)

---> Leaf_Green (10 duplicates)

---> Leaf_Orange (10 duplicates)

, that should edit all the branches to contain "Branch Shape small" and "Branch Shape small 2" as well, since they use the same Symbol.

But all that text really just boils down to being able to sync symbols on multiple levels within the same hierarchy.

[Old Bruce]

38 minutes ago, shushustorm said:

3 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

Are these leaves going into the group all the same Symbol or are they just leaves which are not yet symbols?

It doesn't really matter, both should work if Nested Symbols were implemented.

It does matter, if the leaves are not all the same symbol how will I be able to...

4 hours ago, shushustorm said:

Now, be able to do both:

---> edit all the leaves by editing one leaf on one "Branch" instance

One leaf will be a curve, another leaf will be a different curve and so on. 10 separate items linked in absolutely no way or manner. They will not be changing if I edit one of these separate instances of individual curves.

Or

All leaves will be the same symbol. Now I can "edit all the leaves by editing one leaf...."

==========================

Reading what you want to achieve. I have no problem doing this.

[shushustorm]

23 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

It does matter, if the leaves are not all the same symbol how will I be able to...

In my original post, I stated, that concerning the (fictional) example (not intended to be "solved", but rather as an example this currently positively cannot be done), I made those leaves a symbol already.

Generally speaking, though, it doesn't matter. Both should work:

- Syncing a group of leaves which aren't symbols when the parent ("Branch") is a Symbol itself, which doesn't even make a nested symbol, so this already works.

- Syncing a group of symbol leaves being a child of the "Branch" symbol, making the leaves nested symbols.

Of course, only the latter will sync all the leaves as Symbols. That's why I suggested this feature. The former can use Symbol functionality on branch level, the latter currently only on the level of the leaves. Both doesn't work. But I think it should.

Also, I think for each layer of nesting depth, the symbol highlight color (currently orange) should be different, so you know there are nested symbols.