kirk23 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Would be super useful if we could construct our own live filters in a kind of node based interface working in floating point math . Maybe Something simple at first . Something using 5 of CMYKA or 4 of RGBA channels of a layer beneath the host / target one or some specifically appointed layer as inputs and doing basic distance, blur , displace , kernel, hipass and levels things. Plus some repeating, loop capabilities with gradual fading. Like pixel processor in Substance Designer maybe. Could be a kind of live mesh warp for example without mesh . With host layer to warp and beneath layer giving its R and G channels for warp direction vector and Blue for warp distance/ strength. Working together with super cool linkng system would skyrocket APhoto to totally another level way beyond Photoshop. Aftemplate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aftemplate Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Nuke is king. kirk23 1 Quote The more restricted you put on the program, the closer you program is to idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 2 hours ago, Aftemplate said: Nuke is king. Yeah. $10k soft is great for sure . The only issue I need just an image editor for static images. not video sequences. And one where I could use traditional art tools aka brushes. So why for anything just a little bit more advanced involving CG images or just depth /impasto channel and simple image compositing we all have to use those monstrously complex tools focused on totally different area. Especially when APhoto needs only a few simple tweaks to be perfectly capable . Especially in its 32 bit mode. I understand Adobe. They want people to buy After effects so we wouldn't ever see anything beyond silly toys in Photoshop probably. And After effect is still a video editor mostly . So IMO it would be a great opportunity for Serif to fill a market void for those who need to compose photo and CG but doesn't need video output Aftemplate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aftemplate Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 20 hours ago, kirk23 said: Yeah. $10k soft is great for sure . The only issue I need just an image editor for static images. not video sequences. And one where I could use traditional art tools aka brushes. So why for anything just a little bit more advanced involving CG images or just depth /impasto channel and simple image compositing we all have to use those monstrously complex tools focused on totally different area. Especially when APhoto needs only a few simple tweaks to be perfectly capable . Especially in its 32 bit mode. I understand Adobe. They want people to buy After effects so we wouldn't ever see anything beyond silly toys in Photoshop probably. And After effect is still a video editor mostly . So IMO it would be a great opportunity for Serif to fill a market void for those who need to compose photo and CG but doesn't need video output AE is out. It is not a node. Node picture editing. It is still a vacancy so far. There are some immature projects:https://store.steampowered.com/app/233680/Black_Ink/ (The developer is a turtle, the ancient DX11, no hopehttps://github.com/ttddee/Cascade (Just born, I don't know how long it can survive. For our dream of our node editor. cheers.Sadly, we don't know how to write code. kirk23 1 Quote The more restricted you put on the program, the closer you program is to idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medical Officer Bones Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 On 8/29/2021 at 1:00 AM, kirk23 said: Would be super useful if we could construct our own live filters in a kind of node based interface working in floating point math . Maybe Something simple at first . Something using 5 of CMYKA or 4 of RGBA channels of a layer beneath the host / target one or some specifically appointed layer as inputs and doing basic distance, blur , displace , kernel, hipass and levels things. Plus some repeating, loop capabilities with gradual fading. Like pixel processor in Substance Designer maybe. Could be a kind of live mesh warp for example without mesh . With host layer to warp and beneath layer giving its R and G channels for warp direction vector and Blue for warp distance/ strength. Working together with super cool linkng system would skyrocket APhoto to totally another level way beyond Photoshop. Perhaps Filter forge might fit the bill in the meantime? Full nodal filter construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted September 1, 2021 Author Share Posted September 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Medical Officer Bones said: Perhaps Filter forge might fit the bill in the meantime? Full nodal filter construction. I'd love something like Filter forge, even simpler. Too bad Filter forge have to be rasterized into a layer, cant stay live providing dynamically adjusting masks through APoto layer stack. That rasterizing kills the whole purpose of staying live. Another issue it's CPU bound . Some old version of Xara worked with Filter forge in more live manner, re-rasterizing evry time you scale or move a host object and it was slow as hell. Would Filter forge has an ability to access a layer beneath linked to something and auto updating if something is changing it would be all I need even being super slow. I.e "live" filter forge. Sadly it can't work that way. You have to re-open Filter forge , re-save and reload all the outside files/resources . then save and render . It's a huge pain in a... Working as a plugin doesn't make it easier at all. 3 hours ago, Aftemplate said: https://github.com/ttddee/Cascade (Just born, I don't know how long it can survive. Thanks for interesting links. it's new one for me. I still need/dream of a kind of hybrid . Both layers and brushes for manual touches and nodes for filters. Aftemplate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medical Officer Bones Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 In Photoshop and PhotoLine Filter Forge is non-destructive when applied to a smart object (Photoshop) or Placeholder layer (PhotoLine's smart object version). It works really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted September 1, 2021 Author Share Posted September 1, 2021 29 minutes ago, Medical Officer Bones said: In Photoshop and PhotoLine Filter Forge is non-destructive when applied to a smart object (Photoshop) or Placeholder layer (PhotoLine's smart object version). It works really well. it still can't read " layer beneath" as displace input for a warp I described in my original post. You have to export that layer as a separate image and re-save the filter. Well. in the version I have . not the current one. Can it in current version? Aftemplate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aftemplate Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 2 hours ago, kirk23 said: I'd love something like Filter forge, even simpler. Too bad Filter forge have to be rasterized into a layer, cant stay live providing dynamically adjusting masks through APoto layer stack. That rasterizing kills the whole purpose of staying live. Another issue it's CPU bound . Some old version of Xara worked with Filter forge in more live manner, re-rasterizing evry time you scale or move a host object and it was slow as hell. Would Filter forge has an ability to access a layer beneath linked to something and auto updating if something is changing it would be all I need even being super slow. I.e "live" filter forge. Sadly it can't work that way. You have to re-open Filter forge , re-save and reload all the outside files/resources . then save and render . It's a huge pain in a... Working as a plugin doesn't make it easier at all. Thanks for interesting links. it's new one for me. I still need/dream of a kind of hybrid . Both layers and brushes for manual touches and nodes for filters. this is all. https://www.sgo.es/doc/workflows/index.html?introduction.html https://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/nodes/cop2/cornerramp.html http://pixaflux.com/history.php https://www.dl-c.com/Products-PWP8.html https://github.com/Keavon/Graphite https://github.com/alexge50/gie https://github.com/santaclose/noose https://github.com/VISNode/VISNode https://github.com/sysrpl/ImageShop/tree/master https://github.com/aferrero2707/PhotoFlow https://github.com/dan335/nimp https://github.com/Correct-Syntax/Gimel-Studio https://secure.flyingmeat.com/retrobatch/ https://www.thebloomapp.com/download/?ChangeList https://phoduit.com/blog/ https://github.com/Laidout/laidout https://github.com/nodebox/nodebox https://github.com/hodefoting/mrg/ Please insist on your persistence of the node photo editor. Whip makes people travel. good luck. TheFlow and kirk23 2 Quote The more restricted you put on the program, the closer you program is to idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted September 1, 2021 Author Share Posted September 1, 2021 23 minutes ago, Aftemplate said: this is all. https://www.sgo.es/doc/workflows/index.html?introduction.html https://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/nodes/cop2/cornerramp.html http://pixaflux.com/history.php https://www.dl-c.com/Products-PWP8.html https://github.com/Keavon/Graphite https://github.com/alexge50/gie https://github.com/santaclose/noose https://github.com/VISNode/VISNode https://github.com/sysrpl/ImageShop/tree/master https://github.com/aferrero2707/PhotoFlow https://github.com/dan335/nimp https://github.com/Correct-Syntax/Gimel-Studio https://secure.flyingmeat.com/retrobatch/ https://www.thebloomapp.com/download/?ChangeList https://phoduit.com/blog/ https://github.com/Laidout/laidout https://github.com/nodebox/nodebox https://github.com/hodefoting/mrg/ Please insist on your persistence of the node photo editor. Whip makes people travel. good luck. Wow. What a list. Have you tried them all? Which ones are live and developing and worth trying? So far Graphite got my attention as seam having layers too. I am using Substance Designer currently and believe a best image editing soft should be a hybrid , both layers, brushes and nodes. While Substance Disigner does have bitmap node with brushes too they are abysmal. Aftemplate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aftemplate Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 22 hours ago, kirk23 said: Wow. What a list. Have you tried them all? Which ones are live and developing and worth trying? So far Graphite got my attention as seam having layers too. I am using Substance Designer currently and believe a best image editing soft should be a hybrid , both layers, brushes and nodes. While Substance Disigner does have bitmap node with brushes too they are abysmal. These, all are all, not satisfactory. Nuke lacking a brush. SD has no hardware acceleration GPU. And limit the maximum resolution. And missing color mode. (Lab, LCH. I am waiting for the Nuke to support the brush. I am waiting for the affinity support node. in this field. There is no miracle of open source. I like Krita, excellent. GIMP is a gnome. Quote The more restricted you put on the program, the closer you program is to idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted September 2, 2021 Author Share Posted September 2, 2021 5 hours ago, Aftemplate said: These, all are all, not satisfactory. Thanks for short review . It's so amazing we see so much of a variety in 3d animation area doing so much progress during past couple decades and nothing really good in 2d image area. Nothing really flexible and convenient . I personally like Corel Painter but gosh how ancient it is. A soft having a depth channel and they never cared to even make it exportable or be useful for anything beyond fake impasto effect. Could be Zbrush rival , at least 2,5d part of it. ps. Substance Designer has GP acceleration of a sort Works faster in dx11 mode. Still it's so monstrously robotic and artist-unfriendly . so lacking in ability to make subtle manual touches very necessary to make any kid of art I hate it every day Aftemplate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aftemplate Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 9 hours ago, kirk23 said: Thanks for short review . It's so amazing we see so much of a variety in 3d animation area doing so much progress during past couple decades and nothing really good in 2d image area. Nothing really flexible and convenient . I personally like Corel Painter but gosh how ancient it is. A soft having a depth channel and they never cared to even make it exportable or be useful for anything beyond fake impasto effect. Could be Zbrush rival , at least 2,5d part of it. ps. Substance Designer has GP acceleration of a sort Works faster in dx11 mode. Still it's so monstrously robotic and artist-unfriendly . so lacking in ability to make subtle manual touches very necessary to make any kid of art I hate it every day I think. The node is a hobby of a few people. This also applies to the music industry. In the field of music, there are only a few simple nodes. There is no excellent thing. Excellent like FL Studio. Software developers gave us Apple. So we use Apple. Sadly. Here, there is no freedom. Unless you learn programming. This will spend a lot of time. You ask the node. Shout developer add node support. This is what you can do. kirk23 1 Quote The more restricted you put on the program, the closer you program is to idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted September 3, 2021 Author Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Aftemplate said: You ask the node. Shout developer add node support. This is what you can do. The node system would be great indeed but if they ( APhoto devs) believe it's too alien for their user base or need extra UI programming I would survive with layers too. Their "pixel content link" in between layers is almost same flexible although still less straight forward and less read-able than nodes. I merely need ANY "live filter" constructor with "layer beneath" as a second input ( where we could link anything from other parts of a layers stack) They already have a few of such live filters. So it could be just a group of layers working in 32 bit math that we could save /convert to a live filter . Could be a first step at least. A second step >> fixed displace working same as in every other soft and a few extra basic pixel processing things . The soft looks so close to be truly great and better than Photoshop or anything . Needs just a few minor touches here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aftemplate Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, kirk23 said: The node system would be great indeed but if they ( APhoto devs) believe it's too alien for their user base or need extra UI programming I would survive with layers too. Their "pixel content link" in between layers is almost same flexible although still less straight forward and less read-able than nodes. I merely need ANY "live filter" constructor with "layer beneath" as a second input ( where we could link anything from other parts of a layers stack) They already have a few of such live filters. So it could be just a group of layers working in 32 bit math that we could save /convert to a live filter . Could be a first step at least. A second step >> fixed displace working same as in every other soft and a few extra basic pixel processing things . The soft looks so close to be truly great and better than Photoshop or anything . Needs just a few minor touches here and there. Any compromise method is not as good as the direct method. Regarding the node UI, is there any news? @Andy Somerfield Our affinity photo tutor. philosopher. Quote The more restricted you put on the program, the closer you program is to idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted September 4, 2021 Author Share Posted September 4, 2021 On 9/3/2021 at 7:21 AM, Aftemplate said: Any compromise method is not as good as the direct method. yeah, I kind of agree. Just yesterday tried to make a composition of CG rendered things in APhoto and make a few hand painted strokes here and there. It's kind of works with layer linking . erase groups as dynamic live masks and symbol containers used like those chain links in Photoshop. it does work sort of. But today, just a next day, I already struggle to figure out how the whole layer construction I did yesterday works . Too many container layers unchecked to select and too many links . Found myself thinking how much clear it could be if a half of the doc would be linked nodes . For dynamic masks maybe or inside live filters as containers. Aftemplate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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