Sorting Adjustment Layers strange behavour

[sbe]

I have found some difficulties when sorting Adjustment layers.

You can move the layer out, but you can't get it back. Or am I too impatient and I can't find the right area to move the layer to?

[sbe]

The only way to get the level back in place is to drop it into the closed group. 

While experimenting with this, I found that there are different hierarchies, but it doesn't change the appearance?

By the way, the behavior of moving the layers feels very clumsy… But that's another topic ;)

[loukash]

1 hour ago, sbe said:

The only way to get the level back in place is to drop it into the closed group.

Yes.
I don't know if that's "by design" or a bug. I'd consider it the latter…

1 hour ago, sbe said:

there are different hierarchies

See e.g.

There are also tutorials on this topic: affinity.serif.com/en-gb/tutorials/photo/desktop > search for "layer"

1 hour ago, sbe said:

it doesn't change the appearance?

It depends. The Affinity layer model is very flexible, so that each layer/object type can be nested as a child into any other layer/object type being parent, and the same for clipping one layer/object with another layer/object. And with flexibility comes complexity…
If you drag and hover a layer long enough at the respective nesting position, the app will generate a live preview of what will happen after you drop.

[MEB]

Hi @sbe,
There's two different places to where you can drop the adjustments:
1. you can drop them over the layer's name/label area in the Layers panel (you should see an horizontal marker appearing right below the layer when you are in the right spot).
2. you can drop them over the layer's thumbnail (you should see a vertical marker on the right edge of the thumbnail when you are int he right spot).

In the first case the adjustment is clipped to the parent layer, which means it only affects the area/pixels defined by the parent layer (more info about layer clipping).
In the second case the layer is nested to the parent layer (which is the case you have in your screenshots - you can see the adjustments nested to the parent layer when you collapse the parent layer). This is called in Affinity layer masking (more info about layer masking). In this position the adjustments affect the whole layer they are nested to (they are not dictated by the parent layer as in layer clipping).

In the case of adjustments usually there's no discernible difference between the two placements because the area dictated by the parent layer is the whole area of the layer itself.

To learn more about the differences between layer masking and layer clipping check this video tutorial.

[sbe]

9 hours ago, loukash said:

Yes.
I don't know if that's "by design" or a bug. I'd consider it the latter…

See e.g.

There are also tutorials on this topic: affinity.serif.com/en-gb/tutorials/photo/desktop > search for "layer"

It depends. The Affinity layer model is very flexible, so that each layer/object type can be nested as a child into any other layer/object type being parent, and the same for clipping one layer/object with another layer/object. And with flexibility comes complexity…
If you drag and hover a layer long enough at the respective nesting position, the app will generate a live preview of what will happen after you drop.

uh wow, this document is great, looks very extensive on the issue, I'll try to replicate that! 👍

[sbe]

16 hours ago, MEB said:

In the case of adjustments usually there's no discernible difference between the two placements because the area dictated by the parent layer is the whole area of the layer itself.

hi @MEB yeah, I figured that out too, but then realized that it does make a difference as far as the order is concerned. Masking behaves in the reverse order of clipping.

In the attached document you can see what I mean, the same adjustment layers are used in both variants:

This two videos wraps the problems up very well:

Very chaotic behaviour, but I will get used to it…

clipping-vs-masking-layer-sorting.afphoto

[MEB]

Hi @sbe,
I was trying to keep my reply simple and straightforward explaining how these placements work at an individual basis as some users find them a bit confusing.
If you are stacking adjustments/using more complex constructs, yes there are differences - that's why i said usually.
The issues you mention regarding the order are known/already logged to be looked at. I will update/bump the reports accordingly.
You clearly have grasped the concept if you are finding these issues. Thanks for your feedback. Much appreciated.