Picture Frame > Outer Handle missing if converted / Property confusion

[thomaso]

[ EDIT: added "Property confusion" to the title, according to my 2nd post/video below ]
————

If an image gets converted to a Picture Frame then its outer handle is missing.
Oddly, extremely seldom it is displayed even within a session in the same document, I have no idea what causes it then.

As workaround I can hold the CTRL key to force scaling instead of cropping but then I can't avoid rotation at the same time. Even if additionally SHIFT gets pressed to limit the rotation to certain angles (e.g. 0º, 45º, 90º…) the picture frame rotates without snapping at major angles but at tenths of degrees, as without Shift. Pressing Shift doesn't seem to have any influence here.

– Is there a workaround to force the appearance of the outer handle in a converted picture frame?
– Is there a workaround to force the behavior of the modification CTRL key to avoid rotation or to be restricted as expected with SHIFT during rotation?

 

 

[loukash]

59 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Is there a workaround to force the appearance of the outer handle in a converted picture frame?

Properties > None

I don't understand the "math" yet, but I somewhat suspect this will be classified as "by design"…

[thomaso]

22 hours ago, loukash said:

Properties > None

I don't understand the "math" yet,

Oh, of cause, you are right. The "math" seems to be that only with "None" the image gets cropped with the inner handle & and scaled with the outer handle – while with all 3 other options it always gets scaled with any handle and therefore doesn't need an outer. Stupid me, I even obviously had forgotten my previous related report for beta v1024 about the Picture Frame Property as Default et al.

So the confusion appears to be caused (or increased) by contradictory AND inconsistent behavior of 1 certain property setting: In the video below the 1st picture frame gets created by dragging/tool and has its Default "None" applied as expected and saved in the Defaults – while the 2nd, upper picture frame gets created via conversion.

The converted frame initially appears as cropping only & without outer handle – though its property is indicated to be set to "Scale to Fit max". After changing the setting to "None" + back to "Scale to Fit max" the frame behaves different and does scale now, not crop – so it has two different behaviors with the same setting. However, the expected setting directly after conversion would be "None", as saved in the Defaults and as applied to a frame created with Picture Frame Tool.

 

[loukash]

5 minutes ago, thomaso said:

the confusion appears to be caused (or increased) by contradictory AND inconsistent behavior of 1 certain property setting

Not only that.
At least on El Capitan, the handles don't update unless you deselect and reselect the object.

(Also, there's a reason why I'm using giftgrün as my default MacOS selection color… )

[thomaso]

20 minutes ago, loukash said:

Not only that.
At least on El Capitan, the handles don't update unless you deselect and reselect the object.

Same in 10.14.6 Mojave / see in the video at 1:05 – 1:10 min.

[Pauls]

this has been logged - thanks