Help with outlining

[smart_fl]

Not sure if outlining is the technical term or technique that I'm looking to achieve, however in my photo example below, I need to have all of the white areas on the top half of the boat outlined so that when I change the background to white you can see the areas differentiated from the background and that they dont just blend in.   Hopefully that makes sense.   The photo 1 is my photo, photo 2 shows an example of another photo that I've had that shows outlines around the white areas.  

Would someone please be able to explain to this newbie how to achieve this?   I've tried working with various options such as tools, detect edges, etc. but nothing is providing me what I'm looking for.   Thanks for any help! 

[GarryP]

Welcome to the forums @smart_fl

Adding an outline to the whole boat might not be too difficult with the correct use of the various pixel selection tools.

But adding an outline to each individual part/assembly, as shown in your second image, might take a lot of manual – and very fiddly – pixel selection work, and/or the use of the Pen Tool and Node Tool.

Unless someone has a neat trick up their sleeve, this would probably take a lot of painstaking work.

If you can get a (suitably-layered) vector version of the image then it might take less time but it might still probably take a lot of effort to get it looking right.

Basically, what you want to do – as I understand it – is not a trivial thing which can be quickly achieved.

(If you want something which is simpler than what we can see in your second image then you will need to give us more specific details about what you do, and don’t, want.)

[smart_fl]

4 hours ago, GarryP said:

Welcome to the forums @smart_fl

Adding an outline to the whole boat might not be too difficult with the correct use of the various pixel selection tools.

But adding an outline to each individual part/assembly, as shown in your second image, might take a lot of manual – and very fiddly – pixel selection work, and/or the use of the Pen Tool and Node Tool.

Unless someone has a neat trick up their sleeve, this would probably take a lot of painstaking work.

If you can get a (suitably-layered) vector version of the image then it might take less time but it might still probably take a lot of effort to get it looking right.

Basically, what you want to do – as I understand it – is not a trivial thing which can be quickly achieved.

(If you want something which is simpler than what we can see in your second image then you will need to give us more specific details about what you do, and don’t, want.)

Thanks Garry...what would you suggest I use to try to outline the whole boat?  Based on your mention of various pixel selection tools, sounds like that may be quite manual as well? 

Open to suggestions on how to improve.. this image started with an actual photo of a boat in real life that I tried to turn into a graphic drawing for printing.  I think the use of the filter is what distorts some of the lines but in an attempt to just clean it up is where I am running into issues.

The 2nd image with the outlined boat also started with an actual photo.  I had someone turn that one into a graphic for printing, but unfortunately I dont have access to the person who did it anymore to determine how they did it.  

Are there any other solutions on how to achieve what I'm looking for?  Whether from the original photo with background removed, pre-filter/ post-filter or other options?

Thanks!

[GarryP]

Whatever, or whoever, you use to do this would likely need to have a good idea of how a boat is constructed to be able to separate the different parts in order to outline them ‘properly’.

For example, look at the railings at the bow. They aren’t ‘natural’ – there’s missing bits – and so someone (or something) would have guess how to extend them until they look ‘natural’, and then ‘fill in’ the missing bits, and then figure out where various things start and end (e.g. how far does the bottom of the railing white extend ‘through’/’into’ the bow white), and then add the outline in the correct place.

There may be some machine learning algorithm that can do that but I think a person would be better suited to get a good result and that would mean they will need to know how boats are constructed.

You’re working with a filtered version of a 2D photo and trying to create outlines around what were 3D parts, some of which are the same colour as other parts.

Some of it might be do-able with the Pen Tool and Node Tool but, even if working from the original photo, I think you’ve got a tough job on your hands there.

[smart_fl]

16 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Whatever, or whoever, you use to do this would likely need to have a good idea of how a boat is constructed to be able to separate the different parts in order to outline them ‘properly’.

For example, look at the railings at the bow. They aren’t ‘natural’ – there’s missing bits – and so someone (or something) would have guess how to extend them until they look ‘natural’, and then ‘fill in’ the missing bits, and then figure out where various things start and end (e.g. how far does the bottom of the railing white extend ‘through’/’into’ the bow white), and then add the outline in the correct place.

There may be some machine learning algorithm that can do that but I think a person would be better suited to get a good result and that would mean they will need to know how boats are constructed.

You’re working with a filtered version of a 2D photo and trying to create outlines around what were 3D parts, some of which are the same colour as other parts.

Some of it might be do-able with the Pen Tool and Node Tool but, even if working from the original photo, I think you’ve got a tough job on your hands there.

Thanks again.   I'm not so much worried about the exactness of the detail like the missing part of the railing since its supposed to be an artistic representation of the boat, not an actual replication, which is why I'm not using the 2nd photo...just was an example of the outline part.   But I'll try to figure something out maybe with a selection tool and stroke or nodes or something just for certain areas.

[GarryP]

Good luck.

If you have trouble with a specific tool/workflow then please ask about it.

[carl123]

18 hours ago, smart_fl said:

Would someone please be able to explain to this newbie how to achieve this?

This is not one for newbies. It almost broke me. (and the dog)

Someone needs to come up with a much easier way than the way I did this. I'm sure there is a trick I am missing

 

[smart_fl]

3 minutes ago, carl123 said:

This is not one for newbies. It almost broke me. (and the dog)

Someone needs to come up with a much easier way than the way I did this. I'm sure there is a trick I am missing

 

What tools or techniques did you use to get this?    I still need to clean up some of the lines as the photo I posted wasnt complete yet, but what you have done may work well once the lines are clean.

 

Edit: But I agree it would be really nice to have a simple way to outline items that are not just basic shapes.   I can see several instances where users would want their photo outlined, particularly when the background is removed.

Edited August 29 by smart_fl

[carl123]

1 minute ago, smart_fl said:

What tools or techniques did you use to get this?

The wrong ones

Which is why we need to wait to see if someone else can advise on another much easier way

[Ldina]

@smart_fl Looking at your desired output (using the example you posted that someone else created), I'd guess they created this design from scratch using a vector based program, like Affinity Designer, Illustrator, etc. Or perhaps they used a dedicated or online bitmap to vectorizer program as a starting point, then cleaned it up in a vector based program. Then they probably exported it to PNG with a clear background before sending it to you. 

Affinity doesn't have a bitmap to vectorizer tracing tool, so if you want to do that in vectors, you'll need to have a program that does, or find a service online that will generate a vector drawing. My past results have been hit and miss with vectorizers, but this image might do fairly well (overall). 

Not much help perhaps, but that's what I see. Doing it using Affinity tools can be done, but I'd probably start from scratch using Affinity Designer. Not a newbie thing, but a great project to learn by if you have Designer and the desire to learn how to use it.

[GarryP]

@smart_fl Just to try and be a bit more clear, do you want the different parts of the boat to be outlined as in your second example (like you would have in, for example, a model kit instruction manual), or do you just want to remove the brown/grey background and put an outline around what’s left?

[smart_fl]

8 minutes ago, Ldina said:

@smart_fl Looking at your desired output (using the example you posted that someone else created), I'd guess they created this design from scratch using a vector based program, like Affinity Designer, Illustrator, etc. Or perhaps they used a dedicated or online bitmap to vectorizer program as a starting point, then cleaned it up in a vector based program. Then they probably exported it to PNG with a clear background before sending it to you. 

Affinity doesn't have a bitmap to vectorizer tracing tool, so if you want to do that in vectors, you'll need to have a program that does, or find a service online that will generate a vector drawing. My past results have been hit and miss with vectorizers, but this image might do fairly well (overall). 

Not much help perhaps, but that's what I see. Doing it using Affinity tools can be done, but I'd probably start from scratch using Affinity Designer. Not a newbie thing, but a great project to learn by if you have Designer and the desire to learn how to use it.

Thanks for your input..I haven't been happy with the results of any online vectorizer program that I've found either so I've been essentially trying to do it myself.

Not looking to re-create the boat from scratch though as I didn't care for the sharp fake looking shapes and such in the 2nd photo above, hence the need to try and do it myself.   I'll continue to look though and try some new things.

 

6 minutes ago, GarryP said:

@smart_fl Just to try and be a bit more clear, do you want the different parts of the boat to be outlined as in your second example (like you would have in, for example, a model kit instruction manual), or do you just want to remove the brown/grey background and put an outline around what’s left?

I only added the gray background to be able to show the areas that I needed help with since the white or transparent doesn't show, but hence the issue...if I was to print this graphic on a white piece of paper or fabric, the white parts of the boat would not show.  I dont have a preference on how it's done, just trying to figure out how to either outline the entire boat, or just areas that I need to.  
Im not really looking for a duplicate of image #2 since I dont care for the strong fake looking shapes, was just using that as an example of the outlines Im looking for, so I guess my preference and end result goal is to have a transparent background that I can use on anything but have the boat and all pieces of the boat such as the railing on the bow and radar components at the top of the back outlined so if it is printed on white they will still appear. 

 

Just for further detail, this attachment here is the original photo.  

[Ldina]

@smart_fl Here's a start (may not be what you want). I attached an afphoto file, done fairly quickly.

First, I used the flood select tool to select the gray background. I think I had the tolerance set to 1% and also the checkbox at the top set to NON-contiguous.

That selected some parts of the boat, so I used the lasso tool (set to remove on the context toolbar) to remove those pixels from the boat. Now ONLY the gray background was selected. 

I wanted the foreground selected, so I used Select > Invert Pixel Selection.

Next, I clicked on the Refine button, which helped refine the selection edges (which wasn't easy and only did a fair job due to the JPG artifacts in this image).

Then, I saved the selection using "New Layer" as the output option. This created a totally new layer without any background (and turned off layer visibility of your original).

Next, I added an FX in the Layer panel. Outline did not work well due to the JPG artifacts in the original you supplied. So, I chose Outer Shadow, 100% opacity, 1 pixel radius, and Intensity of zero.. This created an outline around the entire image selection on that layer. Play with the settings to get a better result.

Since you're new, I thought I'd give a brief description of what I did for learning purposes. The attached file shows the results, which aren't pristine, but not too bad, given the original. Hope this helps.

Here's a screenshot with the result pasted on a white background. 

EDIT: It sure looks a lot like Carl's version, and I wouldn't be surprised if we used similar tools!!

PS: print it on a non-white tee-shirt!! 😁

Boat Stripped.afphoto

[smart_fl]

16 minutes ago, Ldina said:

@smart_fl Here's a start (may not be what you want). I attached an afphoto file, done fairly quickly.

First, I used the flood select tool to select the gray background. I think I had the tolerance set to 1% and also the checkbox at the top set to NON-contiguous.

That selected some parts of the boat, so I used the lasso tool (set to remove on the context toolbar) to remove those pixels from the boat. Now ONLY the gray background was selected. 

I wanted the foreground selected, so I used Select > Invert Pixel Selection.

Next, I clicked on the Refine button, which helped refine the selection edges (which wasn't easy and only did a fair job due to the JPG artifacts in this image).

Then, I saved the selection using "New Layer" as the output option. This created a totally new layer without any background (and turned off layer visibility of your original).

Next, I added an FX in the Layer panel. Outline did not work well due to the JPG artifacts in the original you supplied. So, I chose Outer Shadow, 100% opacity, 1 pixel radius, and Intensity of zero.. This created an outline around the entire image selection on that layer. Play with the settings to get a better result.

Since you're new, I thought I'd give a brief description of what I did for learning purposes. The attached file shows the results, which aren't pristine, but not too bad, given the original. Hope this helps.

Here's a screenshot with the result pasted on a white background. 

EDIT: It sure looks a lot like Carl's version, and I wouldn't be surprised if we used similar tools!!

PS: print it on a non-white tee-shirt!! 😁

Boat Stripped.afphoto

Wow, thanks so much Ldina!  I think I can use some of your suggestions as well to play around with some more options, whether on this photo or in the future.  Appreciate the time you took to explain the steps!

[Ldina]

You're welcome. There are probably better approaches, and more time and attention to detail will give a better result. 

Another thought, add a large or small colored background around the entire boat image, with or without a gradient. This will make the white stand out when printed on a white fabric or paper, even without adding an outline (which doesn't look so great in places). Maybe something like this......

[smart_fl]

5 minutes ago, Ldina said:

You're welcome. There are probably better approaches, and more time and attention to detail will give a better result. 

Another thought, add a large or small colored background around the entire boat image, with or without a gradient. This will make the white stand out when printed on a white fabric or paper, even without adding an outline (which doesn't look so great in places). Maybe something like this......

Great idea!  Not sure how well it would show up on a shirt, but I can definitely see it being used on printed material.

I'm gonna play around more with the tools and see if I can continue to clean up the lines more and make some further adjustments, but still learn from several of your steps.

[Ldina]

Lots of options. Here's the boat (no outlines) on a solid ellipse background. I used a mask with a soft brush to smoothly erase some of the water so it blended it a bit better. This ellipse won't get lost if printing on a tee shirt.

I'll leave you in peace now...just wanted to float a few ideas and options.

[smart_fl]

1 minute ago, Ldina said:

Lots of options. Here's the boat (no outlines) on a solid ellipse background. I used a mask with a soft brush to smoothly erase some of the water so it blended it a bit better. This ellipse won't get lost if printing on a tee shirt.

I'll leave you in peace now...just wanted to float a few ideas and options.

No worries...greatly appreciate the ideas and advice!

[carl123]

OK, (forgetting my earlier upload which took way to long to do in APhoto)

This is the easiest and quickest way I can (currently) find to do this but it does require one external step to vectorise the image

1. Go to https://www.visioncortex.org/vtracer/ and upload the image, (change the default settings from Stacked to Cutout IMPORTANT! and change Gradient Step from 16 to 0) then download it.
2. Open in APhoto and delete the bottom curve layer (which is the majority of the background)
3. Group all remaining layers and add an Outline Effect to the group

Screenshot up to this point shown below

Then tidy up (delete) the remaining areas where the background still shows through (3 minutes work)

PS If you don't like the vector effect there are free online resources to turn the vector generated image into a more painted effect

 

[Ldina]

@smart_fl The fastest, easiest method I have found to outline the boat (so far) is to use a Bevel/Emboss FX on the boat layer (boat layer stripped, with a clear background). I chose the "Outer" Type, but you can also try the Pillow, Emboss, and Inner, then play with the settings to control the effect. This works on a white background, and also on a colored background.

Boat Stripped.afphoto

[Ldina]

Using BOTH Bevel/Emboss and 3D FX together, from different angles also works well, and provides a complete outline instead of just on one side.

[smart_fl]

Thanks all...I'm gonna try the 3D and emboss effects to see what kind of additional outcomes I can get, but figured I'd check back in and show you the 'mostly' finished result.  

After some additional playing around and in my attempt to straighten out some of the lines, after using the polygon tool, then flood fill to my selection, I chose outline from the layer effects.  Set it to 1px, outside and black and instead of outlining just my selection, it outlined the entire boat!  I guess it applied the effect to all layers instead of just the selection, but it worked!  Here's the result.  I'm happy with this overall.  Still some minor fine tuning still to do, but for now it's good.  Still greatly appreciate all the suggestions and I do plan to continue to experiment with these other effects to see what will become of the best result and easiest for future needs.

 

 

[Ldina]

Nice job! I find that using outline works great if you have a pretty clean, precise selection, so you probably did a good job with your selection. The emboss and 3D FX seem to be a bit more 'forgiving' if your selection is a bit less clean and precise.

You can also combine vector lines (using the pen tool) with your pixel layers for those areas where you want clean, sharp lines, and you can vary the stroke width as desired, add effects, etc. This can be done in Photo or Designer, but is probably easier and faster in Designer. If you have Designer, you can go to: File > Edit in Designer, and Photo will take your image into Designer. Once done in Designer, File > Edit in Photo to complete the round trip. If you don't own Designer, you can use the Pen and Node tools in Photo, it's just a bit less convenient and flexible. Just mentioning these things for the future. 

[smart_fl]

1 minute ago, Ldina said:

Nice job! I find that using outline works great if you have a pretty clean, precise selection, so you probably did a good job with your selection. The emboss and 3D FX seem to be a bit more 'forgiving' if your selection is a bit less clean and precise.

You can also combine vector lines (using the pen tool) with your pixel layers for those areas where you want clean, sharp lines, and you can vary the stroke width as desired, add effects, etc. This can be done in Photo or Designer, but is probably easier and faster in Designer. If you have Designer, you can go to: File > Edit in Designer, and Photo will take your image into Designer. Once done in Designer, File > Edit in Photo to complete the round trip. If you don't own Designer, you can use the Pen and Node tools in Photo, it's just a bit less convenient and flexible. Just mentioning these things for the future. 

Great to know!  I havent experimented too much with the pen tool yet or nodes, but it's on my list! 😊