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Photo 2 for iPad: under specific conditions it is not possible to permanently convert a colour space + use the Develop Persona after conversion (bug or feature?)


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Affinity Photo 2 for iPad version 2.4.2 build 2371

IOS 17.2 - iPad Pro (11 inch) (2nd generation)

Stage Manager is disabled

 

The terminologie I use:

default colour space: the colour space set in 'settings' > 'colour' > Default RGB Profile

document colour space: the colour space as visible in the channels studio

convert colour space: use the Document option 'Convert Document' and convert the colour space 

development: use the Develop Persona and submit using the '√' button.

sRGB: sRGB IEC61966-2.1

ROMM RGB: ROMM RGB: ISO22028-2:2013

 

issue description

I can't convert a documents colour space and use the Develop Persona. Under specific conditions, the colour space conversion is lost after using the Develop Persona. This happens when a document was initially developed using a different default app colour space.


explanation

After the described test procedures, It seems to me that a file has a default colour space 'build in', being the colour space that was set as default colour space in the Photo app settings when the file was developed for the first time. 

It does not seem to make a difference what the app default colour space is after that first development: whenever using the develop persona again (e.g. when one wants to make changes to a work-in-progress document), the document resumes the initial colour space that was set as the default colour space when the document was initially developed, no matter what the document was converted to or what the app default colour space is at this moment.

In other words, whatever we convert a document's colour space to, if we use the Develop Persona after a colour space conversion, the colour space is reverted to an previous initial setting.


my conclusion is based on the following procedures

test 1 - basic test default sRGB

  1. set the default colour space to sRGB
  2. open a new .dng image. This document is automatically developed in the Develop Persona. Validate the development
  3. check the document's colour space using the channels studio. The colour space is sRGB
  4. save the document as .afphoto file and re-open the document
  5. convert the document colour space from sRGB to ROMM RGB, using 'convert document'
  6. check the document colour space. It is indeed ROMM RGB
  7. develop the document in the Develop Persona and commit
  8. check the document colour space. It is sRGB

 

test 2 - basic test default ROMM RGB

repeat the above procedure but

1. set the default colour space to ROMM RGB

5. convert the document to sRGB

8. the document colour space is ROMM RGB

 

test 3 - basic test sRGB > changed default colour space before colour conversion to ROMM RGB

  1. set the default colour space to sRGB
  2. open a new .dng image. This document is automatically developed in the Develop Persona. Validate the development
  3. check the document's colour space using the channels studio. The colour space is sRGB
  4. save the document as .afphoto file
  5. ! set the default colour space to ROMM RGB !
  6. re-open the document
  7. convert the document colour space from sRGB to ROMM RGB, using 'convert document'
  8. check the document colour space. It is indeed ROMM RGB
  9. develop the document in the Develop Persona and commit
  10. check the document colour space. It is sRGB

 

test 4- basic test ROMM RGB > changed default colour space before colour conversion to sRGB

repeat the above procedure but

1. set the default colour space to ROMM RGB

5. set the default colour space to sRGB !

7. convert the document from ROMM RGB to sRGB

10. check the document colour space. It is ROMM RGB

 

conclusion

a colour conversion using Convert Document is undone after subsequently using the Develop Persona when the document was initially developed with a default colour profile that is different than the colour profile that the document is converted to.

Under the above conditions, whatever change is made to a documents colour space by using 'convert document', this change is automatically made undone when the Develop Persona is used after such colour conversion. The resulting colour space is not influenced by the convert document step but is defined by the app default colour space that was used when the document was developed fot the first time.

Edited by roelandvbb
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I don't think this is a bug.

If you Develop to a Raw layer (embedded or linked) rather than a pixel layer, then when you go back into the Develop Persona again you are re-developing your original Raw image. And part of Developing is changing the color space (to RGB-16 or RGB-32) and setting the color profile to the default color profile you've specified in your application Settings/Color.

But perhaps there is room for improvement.

I will be interested in seeing the thoughts from the Serif staff when they respond to your report.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
    Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2,  16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1

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51 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I don't think this is a bug.

If you Develop to a Raw layer (embedded or linked) rather than a pixel layer, then when you go back into the Develop Persona again you are re-developing your original Raw image. And part of Developing is changing the color space (to RGB-16 or RGB-32) and setting the color profile to the default color profile you've specified in your application Settings/Color.

But perhaps there is room for improvement.

I will be interested in seeing the thoughts from the Serif staff when they respond to your report.

Yes, indeed. That is why I mentioned bug ? - feature ? in the title. If this is indeed intended behavior, that has some logic to it but in that case I think it should be documented better, there is nothing in e.g. the help file on this specific issue. And it can give you some nasty surprises. I had to redo some colour grading.
The underlying problem on my system / setup is that I think my default colour profile setting was changed unintentionally, I certainly did not do that myself but the app was reset to sRGB somehow. I added Publisher and Designer to my workspace not long ago, changed my default tho ROMM RGB there as wel, it is the first thing I do, but I dod not switch off the Apple Stage Manager, i was not aware that that was not supported, again not much documentation on that i think. I am not going to test everything, that's for Serif to do 😉

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

I don't think this is a bug.

If you Develop to a Raw layer (embedded or linked) rather than a pixel layer, then when you go back into the Develop Persona again you are re-developing your original Raw image. And part of Developing is changing the color space (to RGB-16 or RGB-32) and setting the color profile to the default color profile you've specified in your application Settings/Color.

But perhaps there is room for improvement.

I will be interested in seeing the thoughts from the Serif staff when they respond to your report.

By the way, when working on the iPad version (I don't use desktops / laptops for years now) there is no choice option for your colour profile when developing your RAW file. It is developed with the default colour profile from your settings, that is your only 'choice' of colour profile. I think that explains the issue, at least the idea behind it. But I do think that should be documented better, not everybody using the iPad version is fluent with the desktop workflow etc.

Edited by roelandvbb
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5 hours ago, roelandvbb said:

By the way, when working on the iPad version (I don't use desktops / laptops for years now) there is no choice option for your colour profile when developing your RAW file. It is developed with the default colour profile from your settings, that is your only 'choice' of colour profile. I think that explains the issue, at least the idea behind it. But I do think that should be documented better, not everybody using the iPad version is fluent with the desktop workflow etc.

Good point. I had never noticed that, and I think that may explain it.

Actually, I had only recently noticed that the output profile can be specified in the Develop Persona on the desktop Affinity applications; it's rather hidden where it's located by default.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
    Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2,  16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1

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  • Staff

Is it possible for you to post a screen recording showing this on your iPad as I have followed you workflow in all four of your tests and on my iPad and I am getting the correct assigned colour space after committing the Develop persona on the second step.

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40 minutes ago, DWright said:

Is it possible for you to post a screen recording showing this on your iPad as I have followed you workflow in all four of your tests and on my iPad and I am getting the correct assigned colour space after committing the Develop persona on the second step.

Here two videos

 

No 1: default colour space is sRGB. .dng file is opened and committed. It is now sRGB. I convert the document to ROMM RGB. I develop again and commit. Document is now sRGB again, not the ROMM RGB I converted it to.

 

No 2: default colour space is ROMM RGB. .dng file is opened and committed. it is now ROMM RGB. I save the file as .afphoto. I reopen the file. It is ROMM RGB. I convert the file to sRGB. I develop and commit. The document is now ROMM RGB, not the sRGB I converted it to.

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