Affinity Publisher - Section manager not updating….

[David Battistella]

is there an elegant way to update the section manager.

per this recent experience the last thing that should be done is the section manager.

in the book I m laying out in publisher there have been some subtle last minute shifts that move a few pages around and affect the section manager.
 

the problem is that section manager updates in a strange way and places content multiple times into the same text frame, or does not honor the formatting from the master pages. 
 

as an example to eliminate section names on chapter heading pages i created a new chapter heading master page without the section heading, but when i apply that master page it does not replace the content. 

or, 

when defining new page numbers section by section the master pages are not updated correctly? I often get the same text input three or four times as though the behaviour is to place but not replace what was in defined in the field already. 

Also, the section name input felid needs to be longer because the text that gets typed in there is what the section manger uses to create a TOC etc and the field is limited to only a limited characters. 
 

section manager plays an important role in book styling. The window needs an overhaul for both clarity and usability.

 

david 

[MikeTO]

Hi David. For the second issue, note that the Section Manager's starting page number option does nothing for the first section in a Book's chapter - you must set starting page number with the Page Number Options command in the Books panel menu.

I'm unsure about the first issue, the Section Manager wouldn't have anything to do with content being placed into a text frame or the way master pages work. The section manager is unaware of the existence of master pages and text frames. But you wrote "when I apply the master page it does not replace the content". I suspect that this has to do with the Migrate option of applying master pages which sometimes leads to surprising results. You might try using the Clear option when applying the master to see if that leads to better results, but if the page is the first one in the story you could lose your main text so be careful using that option.

Good luck

[David Battistella]

Hi Mike, 

 

Maybe this helps. Section name in a master page is not being "honoured" by sectino manager...

[MikeTO]

23 minutes ago, David Battistella said:

Maybe this helps. Section name in a master page is not being "honoured" by sectino manager...

I just tried this with 2.4.2  and it worked fine for me, multiple sections in multiple chapters, their section names all appeared properly in the section name field.

Could you share a test document for review?

[David Battistella]

I believe it also may have something to do with master pages no overwitint pervious master pages. 
 

lets say. 
 

page 9 has master page A applied and master page A has a section name. 
 

then i create masterpage B which is exactly as Mater page A minus the section name. 
 

master page be will sometimes not overwrite the Master page A elements if it sees common elements. 
 

perhaps this is more the problem than with the section manager. 
 

david 

[MikeTO]

I'm not sure that could do it so there has to be something else going on. Is the screenshot above a screenshot of a master page or a document page?

If it's of a master page, you should see <Section Name> because a master page is not part of a section. If it's of a document page, you should never see <Section Name> because it will only show the section name - it will be blank if the section name is blank.

[David Battistella]

That a screenshot of the master page. 
 

my experience is that sections, once created, are not as mailable to wholesale document changes as we might expect. 
 

i cant show you the 170 ish page document i am having the issues with but its not as straightforward as i expected and those pages do not update as expected. 

[MikeTO]

26 minutes ago, David Battistella said:

That a screenshot of the master page. 

my experience is that sections, once created, are not as mailable to wholesale document changes as we might expect. 

The section name field will always show as <Section Name> on a master page because the master page isn't part of a section. You can tell if it's a field or not by choosing Text > Highlight Fields (I always keep that selected when working). If it doesn't have a highlight for the field then the field has been "expanded" with Expand Field.

Sections are very simple things. You choose the starting page number and give them a name and there isn't much more. Applying a master to a page in the section will never change the section.

There has to be some other step you're taking that is causing an issue. Could you find a way to repeat it and then record your screen to demonstrate the issue?

[Old Bruce]

If you are using the <section name> field to fill in Part One, Part Two, etc or Chapter Names then you may be better served using <Running Header> fields. Choose the Paragraph Style which has been applied to the Part Names or Chapter Names. Then when you alter the number of pages the <Running Header> won't care or even notice.

[David Battistella]

13 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

If you are using the <section name> field to fill in Part One, Part Two, etc or Chapter Names then you may be better served using <Running Header> fields. Choose the Paragraph Style which has been applied to the Part Names or Chapter Names. Then when you alter the number of pages the <Running Header> won't care or even notice.

 

I think this is worth a try.  One thing I noticed yesterday. Is that there is some weird stuff going on when swapping out master pages.

The document has these master pages as spreads and not individual pages. 

 

A Chapter One Master page Page one Blank,

A Double page spread  with full text on each page

A Successive chapter spread which is like the chapter one master page but with full page text on the verso page.

A Master for front matter pages.

I made it this one because at one point the body text and size chaged document wide and I need to use these master pages to reformat the document.

 

I will try to upload a video with what is happening.

 

David 

[David Battistella]

 

Here is the video that shows how Affinty moves existing text fields when the new master is being applied rather than placing the text/character from the master page. 

[MikeTO]

You might have to send a document to Serif for testing - I can't really tell what's happening from these screenshots and videos.

[Callum]

Hi David,

Please could you upload a copy of the file to the following DropBox link and include a short set of steps that can be followed to replicate the issue in question? This should allow me to investigate this further with you.

https://www.dropbox.com/request/W2jBxScCn3MoItPEU4sG

Thanks
C

[David Battistella]

52 minutes ago, Callum said:

Hi David,

Please could you upload a copy of the file to the following DropBox link and include a short set of steps that can be followed to replicate the issue in question? This should allow me to investigate this further with you.

https://www.dropbox.com/request/W2jBxScCn3MoItPEU4sG

Thanks
C

 

Ok. It is on it's way, but I did a lot this AM to get the file laid out as it should look. So you might not discover the issues I was having. 

 

David

 

 

[David Battistella]

21 hours ago, MikeTO said:

You might have to send a document to Serif for testing - I can't really tell what's happening from these screenshots and videos.

Mike, 

 

At the one second mark you can see the master page and it's contents. At the nine second mark you can see that when that master page is applied to a Page the contents of the Master page does not update with the contents of the Master Page,  but is filled instead with the contents of the section manager.

David 

 

 

[David Battistella]

18 hours ago, Callum said:

Hi David,

Please could you upload a copy of the file to the following DropBox link and include a short set of steps that can be followed to replicate the issue in question? This should allow me to investigate this further with you.

https://www.dropbox.com/request/W2jBxScCn3MoItPEU4sG

Thanks
C

 

Dear Callum, 

 

I found a previous version of the document in which there are "chapter heading pages" which do not have the correct MASTER page applied. 

If you begin at the start of the document and begin replacing you will see that successive pages shift and need new master pages applied in order to be laid out correctly. 

You should also see the problem above occurring when trying to apply "successive chapters" master page.

MASTER PAGE NAMING CONVENTIONS

chapter one - ONLY FOR CHAPTER ONE

Front Matter pages - only for front matter

Successive chapters - for Two page layouts that have Text on a verso page and a Chapter start on the Recto Page

Double Pages - a two page layout which has full text on both verso and recto pages

 

 David

 

[Callum]

Hi David,

I believe this is being caused by the size of your text frame on the right hand "successive chapters" master page. If you extend this frame upwards to match the text frames already in your document the text wont shift around when applying this master. If you find you still have issues with text being displaced I would remove any text wrapping settings applied to the image of the cross towards the top of this master page.

Thanks
C

[David Battistella]

Thanks Callum. 
 

Or perhaps the problem is that the cross is a text element and not an image. 
 

so somehow when replacing the masters it wants to place existing text from the page into that text element (the cross) thus existing text on a page overrides the master with a text element. 
 

assume the cross is a letter and or a number in a text frame.  If my master page had to have the capital letter A in that position when i placed the master page there. Shouldn't the letter A appear in that spot instead of existing text on a page? 
 

david 

[David Battistella]

14 hours ago, Callum said:

Hi David,

I believe this is being caused by the size of your text frame on the right hand "successive chapters" master page. If you extend this frame upwards to match the text frames already in your document the text wont shift around when applying this master. If you find you still have issues with text being displaced I would remove any text wrapping settings applied to the image of the cross towards the top of this master page.

Thanks
C

Seems to have solved it. Thank you for taking the time to have to help me resolve it.