Textframes and defaults

[Medm]

While working with textframes, every new textframe uses the attributes I have used last, and no defaults, neither "synchronised" nor factory settings. Do I miss the concept of defaults? How can I use defaults on textframes? 

 

[thomaso]

After creating a new text frame click the "Revert to defaults" button. This will turn the style to the currently saved defaults and create future frames with the same style.

[GarryP]

An alternative to the advice above could be to use Assets.
You can create a text frame exactly as you want it and then create an Asset from it.
Then, whenever you want that kind of text frame, you can just drag it from the Assets Panel into your document and resize it as necessary.

[Medm]

Thank you, but to do this, I have to choose Move tool first, don't I? Every time I want to use a default I have to do something, right? So I could do the same with styles or, thank you Garry, Assets. I'm asking a question of workFLOW... 

[Medm]

My problem with assets is that if I change something in a textstyle I have to redefine all assets using it or get copys of the (unchanged) textstyle using the assets. 

I think working with styles is my workaround, but the question remains, why are there defaults if they don't work like defaults (I choose a tool and it provides me default attributes).

Thank you! 

[GarryP]

Can you explain exactly what you mean by “attributes” in your original post?
Which specific attributes are you concerned with?

[Medm]

Margins of the textframe and a connection to a defined Style like "Paragraph" (as it works with "Revert to defaults" — so I'm fine with it)

[GarryP]

My general advice is that you shouldn’t be applying Text Styles to text frames.

Text Styles are for formatting text not the frames.

(Applying a Text Style to a frame is a quick way to change all of the text in a frame but it’s often not the right way to do it.)

If you format the text using the Text Styles then you shouldn’t need different assets.

Note: If you press the “Revert To Defaults” button when you are editing the text then that reversion applies only to the text, but if you press the Revert To Defaults button when you have the frame selected then that reversion applies to the frame and the text.

[thomaso]

30 minutes ago, Medm said:

I have to choose Move tool first, don't I?

No, interestingly, you can also use this button to revert a current style to its default values with the Text tool and the text cursor placed somewhere in the frame. It resets all paragraphs, not just the one with the cursor - so it behaves as if the Move tool were currently selected.

4 minutes ago, Medm said:

I think working with styles is my workaround, but the question remains, why are there defaults if they don't work like defaults (I choose a tool and it provides me default attributes).

What disturbs you is meant to be a feature to make a currently used style getting auto-used for further objects, too. Yes, it can be useful but doesn't have to. You can use the "Synchronize" button to make the style of an existing, previous frame becoming the defaults for frames that get created next.

Especially for text I wouldn't say styles (saved in the Text Styles panel) would be a workaround but imho are rather the way for a smooth workflow.

I agree, Assets or Object Styles (Styles panel) aren't a better way and don't have advantages over saved Text Styles.

I don't see a major disadvantage in applying a Text Style to a text frame (selected with Move Tool). As mentioned by @GarryP it "just" applies the style to the entire content of that frame, which can be a desired action.

[GarryP]

One problem with applying Text Styles to the frames themselves comes when the user applies “Paragraph Style A” to the first frame and then applies “Paragraph Style B” to the second frame and then links the text from the first frame to the second frame.

Should the software continue using “Paragraph Style A” in the second frame, thus ignoring the user’s choice for the second frame, or should it start applying “Paragraph Style B” to the first new paragraph of the second frame potentially leaving some of the text at the top of that second frame (left over from the ‘overflow’ of the paragraph in the previous frame) still formatted as “Paragraph Style A”?

The software will have to make a choice and that choice will not be to everyone’s liking every time.

At the moment, as far as I know, it does the first option as stated above but, if you then re-apply “Paragraph Style B” to the second frame then some (or all) of the text in the first frame will be reformatted as “Paragraph Style B” also, which may be against the user’s preference – see attached video.

I’ve found it better to only format the text with the Text Styles and not go anywhere near the frames with the Text Styles – it makes for an easier life, for me anyway.

[Medm]

31 minutes ago, thomaso said:

No, interestingly, you can also use this button to revert a current style to its default values with the Text tool and the text cursor placed somewhere in the frame. It resets all paragraphs, not just the one with the cursor - so it behaves as if the Move tool were currently selected.

No, I have to hit ESC first (selecting the move-tool is not necessary, you are right). And the "Revert to defaults" button only works with saved default not with synchronised ones... 

[Medm]

18 minutes ago, GarryP said:

’ve found it better to only format the text with the Text Styles

Yes, no question about this (but I need a basic style to begin with). 

[thomaso]

12 minutes ago, Medm said:

No, I have to hit ESC first (selecting the move-tool is not necessary, you are right). And the "Revert to defaults" button only works with saved default not with synchronised ones... 

Ah, what happens if you don't ESC before pressing this button? To me on mac in V1 it works well without ESC, – was it changed in V2?

Yes, the "Synchronize" option only can be used for future, new frames only, not to revert the style of existing objects. For the latter you could use the "Paste Style" option.

[Medm]

My suggestion for aff

42 minutes ago, thomaso said:

What disturbs you is meant to be a feature to make a currently used style getting auto-used for further objects, too. Yes, it can be useful but doesn't have to. You can use the "Synchronize" button to make the style of an existing, previous frame becoming the defaults for frames that get created next.

If I want to use the attributes of an object further I copy and adjust it. I have generally more work with restoring "defaults" than with using settings on... 

My suggestion for Affinity would be that I have at least the option in the Program Preferences to switch this "last-use-conservation" off.

[Medm]

5 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Ah, what happens if you don't ESC before pressing this button? To me on mac in V1 it works well without ESC, – was it changed in V2?

 

yes I'm working with V2 (and concerning the little things of routine work I miss the improvements — I have to make an extra post one day for that...) 

Without pressing ESC the standards will be applied to the position in the text, to one word for example or to nothing.

[thomaso]

The handling and the functions of this two buttons have been discussed quite a few times in the recent years (in my impression also because it can be hard to understand how they are meant to work vs. how they do or are expected to work) … for instance in this feature request with a list of wishes for V1:

… or this V2 request for a specific function:

Possibly you want to start a new request for V2 … if wanted with links to existing discussions or requests about the defaults behavior?

[Medm]

Okay, I think I've got the general idea now: I select a tool, than I check how it is set by previous usage, and then I can decide to utilize defaults by clicking "Revert" BEFORE using the tool  Documentation is not very specific about this: "When you create new objects, their appearance is initially determined by the default settings for the particular object you are creating."