File Saving Issues in AD when using a USB drive

[Canterslowly]

Sorry, long description - and a bit over my head!
I use an MSI laptop with 8gb RAM and 11
When using v1 AD I had a lot of files being corrupted - right across my system, not just Affinity.  When I queried on this forum it was pointed out that some of files were huge.  I don't make complicated designs but do use jpgs as textures clipped to items.  After may different suggestions it was suggested that the 8gb RAB couldn't cope with the job and I would advised to put all files (except program files) onto a USB external drive which would free up RAM.
I bought a Sonnics 4tb disk and this seemed to sort out the problem.  I have used the external drive as I would use the laptop disk drive - to and from it as I work and saving regularly.
V2 AD was also working well under those circumstances.
On moving to BETA AD I started to get save fail messages and thought the disk drive was "going to sleep" too soon and not "waking" quickly enough to save the file (it does have a lag but I've learned not to touch anything until it's saved the file).  I managed to find the appropriate option to increase the sleep to 1 hour but this has not worked.  Luckily there has been a restore version of my work available on each occasion.  I will attach one of the fail messages  - but they are not always the same.
I've been onto the manufacturers of the disk drive (and a 2nd I bought as a backup) and they sent some disk checking software.  All of my drives have checked out as GOOD so I thought I'd mention this issue to you.  Another member of the Affinity Designer - Hands On facebook group reported that he was experiencing the same issues and wondered if the file handling procedures had changed (that's a bit over my head).  
It's been suggested that it would be better to work on my laptop hard drive and then back up the design afterwards to the USB which I will do for now but I thought it may be worth relating the problem to you.  Thank you.

[MikeTO]

Hi, Serif recommends saving to an internal drive, saving directly to external, network, and cloud drives is not recommended.

I live dangerously and use a cloud drive but I typically only encounter a gentler version of this error which doesn't require closing the document. So when I encounter it I just use Save As and pick a new name. Since you must close your document I recommend always having to an internal drive to avoid the issue.

This isn't new in v2.

Good luck

[Ron P.]

Also storing files on external drives does nothing for RAM usage. RAM (Random Access Memory) is volatile. Drives, HDD, SSD ect, are for storing data, they're known as non-volatile. Unless the drive fails, the data remains. 

I think the issue you may have is due to not enough RAM. It needs to be large enough to hold ALL data your system needs to operate. This includes whatever the OS needs. So if you are trying to edit large images, documents, you need to have a lot of RAM. 8GB is not nearly enough. Do you have other apps running at the same time you're editing? This includes the internet, any anti-virus, apps to play music, watch videos, and the OS itself. When I hear large images I think of images in the range of >1GB, multi-gig images. I run a machine with 6 external multi-gig, multi-terabyte USB drives, and have 32 GB RAM, and still come up against the machine or app slowing down. I probably should update somethings like my GPU card, and RAM, but not in my budget. 

If you want to edit large documents/images I think you need to add more RAM, 8GB just doesn't do the job. The external drives are polled by the system, ie; it's like the system constantly asks them are you there, available for data, this data is suppose to be on you, is it there? If Affinity apps hit at the time, (milliseconds) when that external drive might be taking a nap, then the action fails, it can't save, and throws the error.

 

[Canterslowly]

On 4/23/2023 at 1:45 PM, MikeTO said:

Hi, Serif recommends saving to an internal drive, saving directly to external, network, and cloud drives is not recommended.

I live dangerously and use a cloud drive but I typically only encounter a gentler version of this error which doesn't require closing the document. So when I encounter it I just use Save As and pick a new name. Since you must close your document I recommend always having to an internal drive to avoid the issue.

This isn't new in v2.

Good luck

Thank you.  I appreciate your reply.  That was the general consensus among the people I was speaking to online.  

[Canterslowly]

On 4/23/2023 at 2:01 PM, Ron P. said:

Also storing files on external drives does nothing for RAM usage. RAM (Random Access Memory) is volatile. Drives, HDD, SSD ect, are for storing data, they're known as non-volatile. Unless the drive fails, the data remains. 

I think the issue you may have is due to not enough RAM. It needs to be large enough to hold ALL data your system needs to operate. This includes whatever the OS needs. So if you are trying to edit large images, documents, you need to have a lot of RAM. 8GB is not nearly enough. Do you have other apps running at the same time you're editing? This includes the internet, any anti-virus, apps to play music, watch videos, and the OS itself. When I hear large images I think of images in the range of >1GB, multi-gig images. I run a machine with 6 external multi-gig, multi-terabyte USB drives, and have 32 GB RAM, and still come up against the machine or app slowing down. I probably should update somethings like my GPU card, and RAM, but not in my budget. 

If you want to edit large documents/images I think you need to add more RAM, 8GB just doesn't do the job. The external drives are polled by the system, ie; it's like the system constantly asks them are you there, available for data, this data is suppose to be on you, is it there? If Affinity apps hit at the time, (milliseconds) when that external drive might be taking a nap, then the action fails, it can't save, and throws the error.

 

Ooh, whoosh, over my head again but I get the general drift.  I had thought, when I was gifted the laptop, that it was a gaming laptop therefore it could handle anything thrown at it but it would seem not.  My files aren't that huge - not like some of the work I see on various Affinity tutorials etc.  I've just looked at one which is 151 mb and I probably wouldn't be vastly over that for most things.  I usually do have an internet browser and facebook open whilst I'm using Affinity but that's about all.  Occasionally a YT video whilst I'm learning something new.  I had a nightmare a couple of years' ago when my files were being corrupted right, left and centre - not just Affinity files but documents and photos that I hadn't accessed for a long time.  I asked what could be causing it on this forum and after trying a few different things I took advice to remove everything except program files off the hard drive and use the USB drive.  I've had no problem until the last two months or so when it's started again but seems just to be Affinity files (although I don't use the laptop for much more than that now).

I'm not sure if the laptop can be upgraded in terms of RAM because I think it's older than I was told at first so I may have to give in and buy a new one.  

 

Thank you again Ron P

[Canterslowly]

If you want to edit large documents/images I think you need to add more RAM, 8GB just doesn't do the job.  The external drives are polled by the system, ie; it's like the system constantly asks them are you there, available for data, this data is suppose to be on you, is it there? If Affinity apps hit at the time, (milliseconds) when that external drive might be taking a nap, then the action fails, it can't save, and throws the error.

I've just read your reply again Ron P, and this bit at the end is probably what's happening.  I altered Windows setting so that the USB doesn't go to sleep so often but now I can hear a quiet bleep quite a lot and wonder what is going on.  It's coming from the USB drive and I was wondering if it's busy saving in the background or something like that.  I'm using my hard drive to save the designs I'm working on and then moving it to the USB when I'm finished it but had another fail a few days' ago when existing files were corrupted and appeared as half a thumbnail but it's been OK since then.  I've been looking at new laptops but most are 8 RAM until I hit those on £1.5k (heck).  I'm going to make enquiries about increasing RAM but not sure how old the laptop is and whether it would be financially viable - it's not like I'm working a load on it.   

 

 

[cgidesign]

Regarding USB devices:

There is a setting called "USB selective suspend" in the power plan details. This one controls whether Windows can limiit power usage of USB devices when they are not used. This setting can be on or off. Maybe it helps to set it to disabled in your case (but this is just a guess).

Regarding ram usage:

Best is to check it with the Taskmanager. It shows you how much ram is used. On my system I can easily exceed 8 GB with just a few app open and one big Nikon photo loaded in APhoto.