Will Affinity Designer be optimized for the IPad M2?

[Vivilama]

Not sure if this is the right forum channel for this question.

 

although designer runs much faster on my iPad M2, I still feel that it’s not optimized. Also, with the new pencil however feature I can’t add nodes with the pen anymore. I need to use my finger. 

[MikeTO]

Hi @Vivilama, why do you feel that it's not optimized for the M2? Serif has stated that they have optimized their software for Apple Silicon and Apple obviously believes this to be true since they've featured Affinity in their advertising. The M2 is just a faster version of the M1 with more cores and bandwidth so there's nothing Serif needs to do to further optimize for it.

Cheers

[Vivilama]

11 hours ago, MikeTO said:

Hi @Vivilama, why do you feel that it's not optimized for the M2? Serif has stated that they have optimized their software for Apple Silicon and Apple obviously believes this to be true since they've featured Affinity in their advertising. The M2 is just a faster version of the M1 with more cores and bandwidth so there's nothing Serif needs to do to further optimize for it.

Cheers

Hey Mike,

Thanks for taking the time.

I actually upgraded from a 3rd generation iPad Pro. But to be honest it feels more like an upgrade from or to the M1 ( I can’t really say cause I don’t own one) 

Admittedly, it’s hard to discuss this without having insight into my file.

I probably have somewhere around 150 layers ( is there no info/statistic?) ** Would be nice to have a debug mode where we can see which layers have the greatest impact on performance. **

That being said, many layers use multiple FX. I assume FX are expensive  but unfortunately there is no way around them. Rasterizing them also is out of the question because the resolution is not high enough. Is there a way to change that? Read somewhere it depends on the documents DPI? 
FX, like bevel and 3D could be avoided with additional vector features like extrude. I can’t believe that the o my software that has an extrude tool is Adobe’s and Inkscape. If I wished for a feature during my current project, it would be extrude hands down. 
Speaking of 3D FX,  this effect needs to be updated so it can be used I  isomeric workspace. 
 

Sorry for drifting. 

To get back to my document, I also use Symbols (  instances) , which btw, I have no idea why it’s called symbols. 
 

The really annoying issue is that when I try to move points ( nodes) , the action is delayed  a whooping 1-3 seconds. With my previous iPad it was like double the time. So that I said that this feels more like an upgrade from or to an M1. It also takes a while to render the layer thumbnails/ previews.  

I need to point out that I am not using AD version 2 since I am uncertain if it’s justified to pay for basically the same software. What’s your take on that Mike?

[emmrecs01]

Quote

I need to point out that I am not using AD version 2

I think it is version 2 that is optimised for M1/M2, IIRC.

[Vivilama]

13 minutes ago, emmrecs01 said:

I think it is version 2 that is optimised for M1/M2, IIRC.

I just used the trial of V2… although it seems a tiny bit better, still not a smooth experience.

Also, I kinda dislike the new UI. Don’t understand why they changed it so much when the user experience is not gaining much.  Are those changes based on user wishes?

I would gladly pay for a good upgrade,

but for V2 I have to pass. The knife tool is probably the only thing I am interested in.

Guess I’ll have to continue in Inkscape. 

 

[MikeTO]

4 hours ago, emmrecs01 said:

I think it is version 2 that is optimised for M1/M2, IIRC.

v1 was optimized for Apple Silicon. 1.10 included additional optimizations for the M1 Pro/Max. I don't know if there are further optimizations in v2.

4 hours ago, Vivilama said:

Also, I kinda dislike the new UI. Don’t understand why they changed it so much when the user experience is not gaining much.  Are those changes based on user wishes?

I would gladly pay for a good upgrade,

but for V2 I have to pass. The knife tool is probably the only thing I am interested in.

There are a lot of new features and there are more in the 2.1 beta. Also there's the new universal license which is a big deal, use all three apps on all three platforms. But it's up to you.

Cheers

[Vivilama]

Ok, I have to take it back. Checked out v2 more in-depth and upgraded! 
can’t wait for the next version.

 

[Red Sands]

On 2/20/2023 at 3:33 AM, Vivilama said:

Not sure if this is the right forum channel for this question.

although designer runs much faster on my iPad M2, I still feel that it’s not optimized. Also, with the new pencil however feature I can’t add nodes with the pen anymore. I need to use my finger. 

Hi @Vivilama

Exactly, it's no use having a general discussion here about theoretical differences, it's not going anywhere. Other than filling up the internet with letters.

Practical experience: i recognize a bit of your experience. I have an iPad Pro M2, and I haven't been that impressed with performance compared to my M1 Mac when comparing complex documents, even when zoomed in. I've seen marked differences that came as a surprise to me with my iPad plugged into the power outlet.

I'll find out for sure when I open some documents soon that are comparable to yours in some respects, many objects and FX, but they are probably significantly more complex. In general, I do absolutely nothing mundane in Affinity Designer, so I'm one of those people who rely on performance designed to handle real and complex production-realistic tasks. And performance is just fine on the Mac M1.

My theory, though, has been that an iPad is, after all, a different hardware build and a different OS, where power consumption and performance are always a trade-off, so I've chalked up my observations to that probably being at the root of the difference. On the other hand... it's an M2 Pro. I expect a lot, also considering the price.

But I've also noticed among the many, many, many flaws and shortcomings and potentials I'm in the process of reporting/reporting to Serif Software, some differences in rendering when zooming in and out, and here I've noticed for example something similar to double rendering of e.g. noise and FX, which has made me worry if the code in iPad apps isn't optimized and coded as finely as I experience it on Mac. But I'll get closer to the answer there when I start working on my extra complex documents.

I don't experience any problems with my Apple Pen as you describe, though. That sounds strange.

By the way, be aware that V2 saves in a format that your V1 versions of Affinity can't open, so if you don't buy V2 but have overwritten v1 files with v2... boom.

Cheers

[Vivilama]

Well, your reply makes this post worthwhile 😀 so it’s not just filling up the internet. Porn and fake news is! Lol

I agree with you. 
i am curious what kind of complex work you are doing. Mind showing something?

i wonder if there is a way to reduce the quality of layers we are not working on. Sort of like a proxy mode. 
i come from the composting sector where tasks are much more power hungry than vector graphics. In Order to handles crazy expensive projects there is a auto proxy mode. It greatly reduces the quality of the image for purposes of checking animation or timing. I could see something like that working in a vector drawing app. 
 

or perhaps a temporary “bake layers” while working on a specific one. 
 

in music production they call it “bouncing a track”. When using a dozen of CPU hungry software instruments,  they temporarily bounce them to disk as waveforms. 

Which forum is best for this discussion? 

[Red Sands]

Hi @Vivilama

The designs I do in Affinity are very detailed works in large portrait formats (A0 to A2), and in a few examples in formats that are just as large in height, but very wide, horizontally. These consist of several linked files of main documents, each containing linked files, and together we are talking about seriously many small and large objects that are very detailed. In order for it to have a certain realism and not look like raw vector graphics too much, I use a lot of FX and that on even the smallest elements, so that realism occurs without it turning into photorealism.

However, it is in smaller and more common types of designs that I have experienced the performance difference, somewhat to my surprise, on the iPad Pro M2. But all this to say that I don't do logos or single drawings as a starting point, but really pour content in. That's also what Affinity is made for, and Affinity was even further optimized around version 1.10. I wonder if the iPad versions were also optimized similarly.

I have fine use of the new x-ray mode, but too much of the graphics disappear for me to really work in it. X-ray mode is best suited for simpler designs.

I've seen other graphics programs be able to turn off FX rendering alone, or allow you to outline individual layers, layers you here and now don't need to see detailed, but conversely want to see dimensions and contours of while working on others. This has been really useful for me.

When I switched to M1 on the Mac, I noticed virtually no performance issues anymore, and M1 performs wonderfully overall. So the M2 iPad Pro was the obvious choice for mobile work. Affinity performs less well on the iPad than I expected, but as I said, that may be due to iPadOS itself and Apple's compromises. The biggest surprise and disappointment is that Affinity v2 cannot be used seriously at all with an external display via HDMI. I don't understand how this has been overlooked or discarded. So I want to see this work out so that Affinity can become a permanent part of my software portfolio, and in general I'll be keeping an eye on performance and tablet implementation + integration with external monitors, mice and other accessories in the future.

[Callum]

Just to add some clarity our apps are fully optimized for working on both M1 and M2 Apple devices 

Thanks
C

[Red Sands]

1 hour ago, Callum said:

Just to add some clarity our apps are fully optimized for working on both M1 and M2 Apple devices 

Thanks
C

Let me show you an example of a rendering of a very basic shape with a gradient and a blur. A bit of noise in one colour. When I zoom in and out I can see what appears to be double rendering every time I zoom.

Later I will upload an example of this behaviour in a complex drawing and zoomed in. Then the artefacts and delay get very bad. I am not sure this is only related to rendering of noise. It distracts and really doesn’t look how the rendering engine on M1 on a desktop Mac renders the same scene - instantly with no double rendering..

M2 iPad Pro 2022 - hardware can’t get much more recent or better.

Bug? Difference between rendering on M1 desktop and apps? I wouldn’t expect this from my M2.

[Red Sands]

Hi @Callum

Even more here - tripple rendering? And still not the worst case I have seen, looking for it now in my files:

 

 

[Red Sands]

Hi @Callum

This is a GIF of the rendering on a old Windows machine from the Stone Age with just a HD Graphics 3000 gfx card.   

As you can see the rendering is almost faster and in this case I see a two step rendering and not three step rendering as demonstrated in the recording above.

Stone Age PC:

iPad Pro M2 2022 model:

 

The difference in rendering steps and performance doesn't make sense to me - I would expect better performance on the iPad Pro M2 that is almost 10 years younger than the Windows PC.

[Vivilama]

Beautiful examples! 
Good call on the Stone Age PC! Shocking to say the least. 
I got the M2 iPad because of designer 😒