Disappearing Font

[Woodpig]

Hi,

I've formatted a document in Affinity Publisher using Athelas, a free document font on Mac OS. However, I've just opened the file after a month of not working on it, and it's telling me that this font is missing. I've contacted Apple support, who suggest that it's an Affinity problem, not an Apple one.

I've recently bought a new Mac, and this automatically updated me to OS Ventura. I'm using Affinity Publisher 2.03. I've tried downloading Athelas from a font site, but it throws up an error when I try to instal it ("duplicate fonts").

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Gareth.

[MikeTO]

Hi Gareth.

When you create a new document in Publisher, is Athelas in the font menu?

When you create a new document in Apple Pages, is Athelas in the font menu?

Open the Font Book application on your Mac - it's in the Applications folder. Is Athelas listed there?

Cheers

[Woodpig]

Thanks Mike,

There is no Athelas when I open Publisher (1 or 2), or Apple Pages.

There is no Athelas listed in Font Book. I've been told by Apple support that document fonts don't show up there anyway, so maybe it's on the system somewhere (and that's why it's giving an error when I try to install another version?).

I've thought about resetting the fonts via Font Book, but since Athelas does not appear there (even when it's installed) then perhaps there's no point? I'm also worried about losing all my third party fonts.

G.

 

[MikeTO]

If Athelas is not showing up in Font Book then it is not installed and you'll need to reinstall it. But it sounds like you've tried to install it only for macOS to tell you that it's a duplicate so it should show up in Font Book.

Is it possible that you've installed a variable font and not a static font? Affinity is not compatible with variable fonts. To fix this, you'd have to find the font in Font Book and uninstall it and then install the static version, but you can't find it so I'm unsure what do advise.

This isn't an Affinity issue since the font isn't showing up in Font Book for you but more of a Mac issue. I think Apple just gave up and sent you to Serif for help. Sorry.

[Woodpig]

I think you're right. I just found this thread: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7564632

Seems like Apple have decided to restrict certain fonts and now they can no longer be used in apps. Which is really bad, since I've just formatted a whole document using one! WHat idiots! (And I too am an idiot, apparently)

[laurent32]

I think Athelas is a Google font ? Isn't it ?

https://fonts.adobe.com/fonts/athelas

You might install it from there ?

[Woodpig]

That's Adobe, I'm afraid. Not included with Google fonts, I don't think.

[laurent32]

Sorry, you're right… I feel I've seen that font somewhere on my computers not long ago… maybe Big Sur or Catalina ?

[Woodpig]

Yes, I think it's a recent update. I'll have a look around!

[laurent32]

Well… I can't find it…

[kenmcd]

Athelas is what Apple now calls a "Document-support" font.

Fonts included with macOS Ventura https://support.apple.com/en-asia/HT213266

"These fonts are available only to documents that already use the font, or to apps that request the font by name. Some are older fonts that were included with earlier versions of macOS or Apple apps."

It appears this is not working in Affinity applications. Search this forum for "Athelas" to see other discussions.

The only work-around I am aware of is to rename the fonts.

The commercial version is named differently so that will also work.

[laurent32]

Not cool from Apple…

[Woodpig]

5 minutes ago, kenmcd said:

The only work-around I am aware of is to rename the fonts.

That doesn't seem to work. Do you mean to rename the file before installing, or after installation? Neither work for me.

[kenmcd]

19 minutes ago, Woodpig said:

That doesn't seem to work. Do you mean to rename the file before installing, or after installation? Neither work for me.

The Athelas fonts are in a TTC file (a TrueType collection file). So you have to extract the individual TTF files and then rename the fonts (not just the file name).

In one of the other threads here in the forum a user gave step-by-step instructions using FontForge.

You can also use FontCreator.

Easiest is to use FontLab 8 if you have that available. 

[Woodpig]

OK, I've been bounced around from Affinity to Apple to Adobe, and now I'm back here again.

After hours on the phone to Apple support, it turns out that a group of fonts (including Athelas) has been "deprecated" in Mac Os Ventura, and that now it is only available as a document support font - meaning, it can be used to display documents already created with that font, but not to create new documents. The font continues to work with (e.g.) OS Monterey. So, essentially, Apple have restricted the licence for those fonts. Furthermore, they insist the emphasis is on third-party apps/font creators to make it work (though I don't really see how they can...).

However, the issue is that, even if I try to install a commercial version of the font, it produces duplicates. Adobe Fonts won't install it at all for 3rd party apps (though it will work for Adobe CC apps). Installing the font directly from commercial vendors/font creators results in the same duplication, but it does then seem to work in Apple apps (e.g. Pages) - but still not in Affinity. Essentially, Apple are saying it's up to Affinity/Adobe/etc to get this working.

I appreciate the workaround given above (using FontForge, etc), but this doesn't appear to be a legal route.

So, does anyone have any other ideas?

[Old Bruce]

1 minute ago, Woodpig said:

However, the issue is that, even if I try to install a commercial version of the font, it produces duplicates.

Only thing I can think of is that you may have to change the Text Styles in existing Documents to use the non Apple versions in order to avoid duplicates. For Placed/Imported/Copy-Paste files you may have to use Find and Replace as well.

Such a shame in that Apple used to actually care about the fonts it included in the OS. They were well thought out, now fonts seem to be included because of current fashionability.

[Woodpig]

3 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Only thing I can think of is that you may have to change the Text Styles in existing Documents to use the non Apple versions in order to avoid duplicates. For Placed/Imported/Copy-Paste files you may have to use Find and Replace as well.

Well, the issue is that no versions of the problematic fonts are showing up at all in the Affinity fonts list.

[Woodpig]

But yes, Apple have been very disappointing in this whole affair. They've basically broken things so that there is no legal workaround (that I can see). If Affinity could see the duplicate fonts, then at least I could continue to use it.

[Old Bruce]

Just now, Woodpig said:

If Affinity could see the duplicate fonts, then at least I could continue to use it.

Do they (the commercial version, not the Apple version) show up in Apple's Font Book application? Did you use Font Book to install them?

[MikeTO]

2 minutes ago, Woodpig said:

Well, the issue is that no versions of the problematic fonts are showing up at all in the Affinity fonts list.

Are you downloading a variable version of Athelas or the static version?

[Woodpig]

Just now, Old Bruce said:

Do they (the commercial version, not the Apple version) show up in Apple's Font Book application? Did you use Font Book to install them?

Yes and yes (with warnings concerning duplication, but after that they do work in Pages, for example).

[Woodpig]

2 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

Are you downloading a variable version of Athelas or the static version?

Static, I believe - but (excuse my ignorance) how would I tell?

[Woodpig]

Affinity doesn't use static, right?

[MikeTO]

Just now, Woodpig said:

Affinity doesn't use static, right?

Affinity doesn't support variable, just static.

Variable fonts come as a single file, or a handful of files. With a static font, you'll have one for regular, one for italic, one for bold, one for bold italic, etc.

[Old Bruce]

1 minute ago, Woodpig said:

Affinity doesn't use static, right?

No, Affinity does use the Static. Affinity does not use Variable or Colour fonts.