Help - how to edit objects in a group without ungrouping

[misc33]

Sorry to ask such a basic question, but I've searched and searched and can't work it out on my own. Probably staring me in the face, but I really need help with this one.

 

The promo blurb for Affinity Designer says  it "intuitively edits objects within groups without ungrouping". I'm working on a very complex map vector with many many layers, and I can't for the life of me figure out how to select just one object in a group for editing, from the artboard.  If I can find it in the layers panel (almost impossible most times) then I can select it, but I really need something like AI's group select tool.

 

Also, I'd really like to delete portions of the vector map so I can work on individual countries. How do I do this on the canvas itself? I'm used to being able to use the direct selection tool, draw a marquee around the unwanted area, then just press delete. This isn't working for me in AD when I use the node tool.

 

Please help, before I give up and go back to AI - not something I want to do!

[crabtrem]

Caveat. I'm no expert. My opinions are my own, and represent no one else. I offer suggestions in an attempt to help.

 

That said.

First question.  How do you find the object in a layer?  (Remember the MOVE tool is your friend)

click on or select your object. Right click and a menu appears. At the bottom is Find in the Layers Panel.

 

Second question. (Remember your move tool is your friend)  How do you delete other objects on the canvas?

Make sure the edit all layers button is pressed in.

With the MOVE tool selected. You can marquee select over objects to select them.  You can shift select to click on and select several shapes/objects.

Once they are selected press delete and they are gone.

 

You may consider just using that, Find in the Layers Panel, and uncheck the layer to hide what you don't want to see.  That way if you want the object you just have to check the layer.

 

Hopefully I understood your questions. If not I apologize in advance.

 

[misc33]

What you're saying makes perfect sense, but it's not working for me when the objects are grouped. Attempting to select with the move tool on the canvas simply selects the entire group, and all I can see is the outer most bounding box of that group. I'm dealing with hundreds if not thousands of layers, and I really need to be able to click on the object I can see (an individual country, in my case), to edit it. I'm not seeing any marquees when I click and drag. Nada. I have the edit all layers button pressed.

[misc33]

Hmm ok, I just realised I'm trying to use the node tool like AI's direct select tool - hence no marquee in AD. I see a marquee when dragging with the move tool, but it selects the groups, not individual objects, as you'd expect. I just want to be able to edit objects within groups, without ungrouping them, but I can't even select them! AD says this should be intuitive, so I must be missing something obvious here.

[JimmyJack]

Does CMD click not work?

CMD click on the object or CMD click drag onto the object. Should select the individual object no matter where it is group wise.

[crabtrem]

I was too slow in my response. JimmyJack said it.

[R C-R]

Try this: With the move tool, click once on something in the group. That will show the bounding box surrounding all the grouped objects & select the group in the layers panel. Then double-click on the object you want to work with in the group, which should select it. If needed, do as crabtrem suggested & use the right-click contextual menu to select the Find in Layers Panel item, which will expand the group & select the object's layer in the Layer panel.

 

EDIT: Actually, you don't have to do the first click to select the group with this method -- just double-clicking on the grouped object should select it. I like this method because it can be done with one hand just using the mouse. Also, double-clicking on a selected shape object with the move tool will switch to the node tool, another one handed shortcut I like using.

Edited February 8, 2016 by R C-R

[crabtrem]

CMD-Drag with the move tool, will also select individual objects, even when in groups, within your selection area.

[misc33]

Bingo! That's it. Thank you both so much!

 

I can now select within groups, so all I'm missing is the ability to delete whole sections of the canvas all at once. I tried CMD dragging but no luck. 

 

I didn't know about CMD clicking to show in the layers panel, that's going to be invaluable. Thanks again.

[crabtrem]

If you are having trouble defining your selection because of background objects being selected first, use the Option Key.  So say you want to start a selection area, but it is over a part of an object you don't want to select.  Hold down Option, then ALT and drag and you will now select only the objects that are within your selection area, even when in separate groups.  And the object you had to start your drag over remains unselected.  The example in the tutorial used the example of when you use a background object covering your entire canvas, but you only want to select objects on top of the canvas.  Option (ALT)-CMD-Drag will do it.

[crabtrem]

Here is the link to the Affinity Tutorial. 

[misc33]

That's a good tip, thanks - I can see I'll be using the opt-cmd thing a lot.

 

Still looking for how to click and drag to select through all layers and even partial objects all at once, and delete them. Kind of like erasing specific parts of all layers at the same time.

 

I'm going to go back and do a whole lot more tutorials, hopefully I'll find my way around these issues as I go.

[crabtrem]

On the bottom left of the layers panel you will see a little button that looks like a stack of papers.  That allows you to select objects no matter where they are in the layer stacks.  You can select all objects you can see when that button is pushed in.

If not you only can work on the layer you have selected.

[R C-R]

I didn't know about CMD clicking to show in the layers panel, that's going to be invaluable. Thanks again.

Just so there is no confusion about it, you Control (or right) click to bring up the contextual menu, not Command-click.

[crabtrem]

Right. But CMD-Click will select the individual object, even if in a group.

[JimmyJack]

 

 

Still looking for how to click and drag to select through all layers and even partial objects all at once, and delete them. Kind of like erasing specific parts of all layers at the same time.

 

 

 

It's a couple click process. CMD drag across a bunch of objects to select. Switch to node tool. Drag (again, yeah I know -_- ...) around the nodes you want. Hit delete. 

Works across layers and groups. You might be left with some ugly stuff though.... disembodied edges here and there. That'll be the case in any program though.

[crabtrem]

Yeah,  I guess my question would be, would you want a permanent change, or would just hiding it be satisfactory?

[misc33]

I want a permanent change. I have a vector map of the world with a detailed coastline of every country and island, including lakes, railways, ...it's BIG. I've made a copy of the world and now I just want to work on North America, so I'm looking to delete everything else. Layers are grouped as "countries" and "coastline" etc. So Australia is in the same group as Africa and China and...you get the picture.

 

When I CMD drag across the bunch of objects I want to delete, the whole group is selected. I'm pressing CMD, holding it down, then clicking and dragging. What'm I dong wrong? I'm ok with being left with some ugly stuff, disembodied bits are easy enough to clean up.

This is so quick and easy to do in AI, and I'm really hoping, in fact I'm sure there's a way to do it easily in AD. More ideas welcome.

[crabtrem]

So I am going to cover both methods which I worked out.  They are not guaranteed to be the best, but maybe if you experiment you can find what suites you best.

First I will discuss the non-permanent view.  I'm doing this just to be complete, and it still can be used as a step in the permanent deletion.  

 

So create a closed object to cover the areas that you want to delete.  So say you want to get rid of British Colombia, but not Victoria Island.  Using your pen or pencil tool draw around the area you want gone.  Don't be concerned about shapes or anything, just what you want gone.  Make sure it is closed, fill with anything.  Go to that object's layer and change the blend mode to Erase.  There are no longer any colors or strokes within that area.  

I include this, because it is also easier to see, or visualize.  Now with the move tool, make a selection trying to include all of the objects you want to delete or cut off.  As you drag down, with the erase blend mode, you should see all the objects behind your drawn object get selected as you drag around them.  Once you have a good selection of all the objects you want to delete or cut, use the boolean operator divide on the selection.  You can access this from the buttons on the top right area of the same line with the persona's.  Or you can go to menu Layer-Geometry-Divide.  I used divide because it should try and make every overlapping object it's own object on a new layer.  You should see a lot of new layers populate with all kinds of shapes.  I just started by selecting a layer, making sure I wanted it deleted, and just pressed the delete key.  If you start from the top, as you delete you will automatically go to the next layer.  

The divide boolean will cut those objects you wanted to slice, because of the new shape you used as a mask over the area you wanted deleted.

Then you should at worst have 90% of what you were looking for, and then you can go in with the node tool and clean up.

This is only something I just thought of during our discussions.  I only tested it quickly.  And do not know your specifics.  But it should be either a process to you can use to complete the task, or get you started.  I don't guarantee anything. This is just my own thoughts on the matter, and I'm no expert.

[R C-R]

When I CMD drag across the bunch of objects I want to delete, the whole group is selected.

From I can tell, that is normal. What makes it different from just dragging with the Move tool is that you can then select the Node tool, which reveals all the nodes in each object regardless of what group they are in. You can then selectively delete nodes in more than of them at a time by dragging a marquee (with the Node tool) around them & tapping the delete key.

 

If you want to delete entire objects, you must select all their nodes. Since you are limited to rectangular selections, this may require doing this several different times with smaller marquees if some objects you do not want to delete overlap those that you do.

 

It may help to temporarily lock or hide layers you do not want to delete, since that excludes them from drag selections, but that will require a trip to the layers panel. The control-click "Find In Layers Panel" will simplify that chore somewhat, but not completely.

[misc33]

Thank you for these ideas, I appreciate your time. In trying what R C-R suggests, I have the spinning beach ball for ages... this may be because the file is over 153MB. After it's finished doing its thing, I see this:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a5kn9h4bzfbxyer/Screen%20Shot%202016-02-09%20at%2009.01.49.png?dl=0

(sorry I don't know the correct way of uploading images here)

 

... and I'm not sure what it is I'm seeing and what I should do next. When I drag with the Node tool I do not see a marquee.

I am not able to lock or hide layers I want to keep because then I wouldn't have access to the items I want to delete. So locking the 'countries' layer will lock North America (what I want to keep) as well as Europe (what I want to delete).

 

Crabtrem I've tried to do what you said, but am not having any luck so far. I'll keep playing around with it. 

[misc33]

I should clarify by saying that deleting one country at a time is not and should not be an option here. Australia and France and China are big enough to select and delete with no problem, but what about the tiny provinces within China?  What about the thousands of tiny islands in the Pacific region? There's no way I can spend the time to identify and select each one in the layers panel.

 

There needs to be a simple way to cut through all vector layers and permanently delete all the nodes and closed shapes that aren't required. Click, drag, delete.

[R C-R]

From your screen shot, it looks like the layers are not groups -- if they were, you would see "(Group)" following each of their names in the Layers panel. So one way to delete Europe in the Countries layer would be to expand it, select Europe, & tap the delete key.

[crabtrem]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/83398901/AD%20erase%20sections%20720p.mov

 

I made you a video.  I couldn't get it small enough, so here is a link to my public DropBox for it.  I will keep it up there for a day, if necessary.

 

I hope you can follow it, there are no edits, and no sound.

But it follows pretty much what I wrote.

 

I was actually going to stop answering questions for awhile, but I didn't want to leave you hanging, or thinking I was crazy or something.

 

I made a group of 4 objects and copied those groups over an area.

I selected a circle to define where I want to delete.

I used the erase blend mode to erase that area.

I used the move tool to select the objects in and around the area I want to delete.

I used Option-CMD-drag.  Then I showed what selecting with just CMD does.  And I think at the beginning I showed what happens when you start with just CMD-drag, it selected an object I didn't want.

Once I have a rough Selection, I used the Shift-CMD to click on objects to select or deselect them.

Once I'm satisfied, I use the Boolean divide.

Then I go through and delete the layers I don't want.

I show the node tool selection after.  I think I used the cmd key there, but I forget.

I show various views, outline, vector.  So you can see the area is clear of objects, and those objects that were partially selected were split into sections that are workable.

Hope you can follow it.  Hope it helps.

 

[misc33]

I really wish this document was organised like that! Within the Countries layer is a group that has every single country of the world, labelled only as "Curve". I'm thinking I'll just do what needs to be done in Illustrator, and hope that more light can be shed on how AD can do the same thing that will take me 5 minutes there. And I'll keep on learning all I can about AD, because I am determined to kick my Adobe habit as soon as I can.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/osi71ppkaksgqh4/Screen%20Shot%202016-02-09%20at%2010.11.53.png?dl=0