Text frames keep moving

[SheilaL]

I've been working on a 250 page book, which has dozens (at least) of images and linked frames. I'm using separate left and right master pages (maybe a bad idea?) for book title on the left page and to start new chapters on the right page. Last night, when I closed the file, everything finally looked as it should. This morning, when I opened it, many (but not all) frames had shifted, some just a little bit, and some  off the page or to whole new pages. I've been struggling with this issue for the past two weeks. Now, I really need figure this out so I can get this project finished and printed. 

Am I making sense? Anthology.afpub

[Old Bruce]

35 minutes ago, SheilaL said:

Am I making sense?

Yes.

36 minutes ago, SheilaL said:

I'm using separate left and right master pages (maybe a bad idea?)

Again, yes.

I will look at the file you included. Slow internet here today, it'll take a while.

[thomaso]

I don't really understand the idea and layout (e.g. margins, page number orientation) in some of your Master pages (e.g. "B Rt"), so I might misinterprete the approach and I can guess only what was going on.

Assuming, nobody was changing the document over night it seems you saved it in this state without noticing the offsets, which, I guess was caused by auto-flow of text (including auto page creation) from a spread which had different masters applied for left and right. For instance Master A for the left, Master B for right page. If you then paste text on the left page, let it flow to the right page and shift-click the eye-icon on the right page to start auto-flow, then all auto-created pages will have master B applied – according to the page where you started the flow, and no offset will happen, but margins would not be mirrored, corresponding to the single page master B which has no inner outer but different left and right margins.

So it seems you applied afterwards Master A on all even pages, which causes different margins (corresponding to the inner / outer difference on Master A).

What you could try is to interrupt the text flow, e.g. at page 13, and apply to 12 / 13 the Master A (or one you like, but a spread, no single page), then newly start the auto-flow with shift-click on page 13. This will cause new additional pages at the end of the document without the offset but margins corresponding with their master.

If you scroll now through the document you see the about the half of all spreads as empty, they contain only those items which have not been pinned as part of the text-flow. This means, it may be useful to pin all objects before you start the procedure with interruption of the text flow on e.g. page 13. – Also it would be useful to have as less as possible interruptions of the text flow (I haven't checked, just noted there are several before 12/13) – otherwise the procedure will be necessary several times and, probably worse, the various addition of pages and leaving empty pages in between can easily confuse. So maybe you create first 1 large text flow. – At the end you would have many totally empty pages that "just" need to get deleted to come back to the current 250.

[Old Bruce]

1 hour ago, SheilaL said:

start new chapters on the right page.

Use the flow options in the Paragraph Panel for this, Start on: Next Odd Page

Do Not use blank paragraphs to space the text, use Space Before and / or Space After in the Paragraph Text Style. You also use Frame or Page Breaks in some places. I am guessing this is to create spaces for the images. Use the Pinning panel and the Text Wrap to make the space, as you are already doing.

You tend to override Paragraph Styles for no discernible reason. On Pages 20 and 21 you have overridden the Body Text paragraph style as well as the Body First Paragraph style for the three illustrations (1, 2, and 3). I would have made a Paragraph Style for these paragraphs, as there are many of them.

Here is a basic setup of the Master/Parent pages and a couple of Paragraph Styles to start with. Also note that I have the Page numbers applied to the other two Master/Parent pages.

Anthology bruce edit 04.afpub

Note the use of the 2 Group Styles; Base and Headings. I use these to base other styles which are quite similar, this way I only have to change indents or first line indents in new Paragraph Style to get a Quote or a First Paragraph paragraph style. The vast bulk of my Paragraph Styles' properties are set in the Group Styles. This way I only need to change the Font Family or Font size once and have it change automatically in two or three or seven related styles.

[SheilaL]

3 hours ago, thomaso said:

I don't really understand the idea and layout (e.g. margins, page number orientation) in some of your Master pages (e.g. "B Rt"), so I might misinterprete the approach and I can guess only what was going on.

Assuming, nobody was changing the document over night it seems you saved it in this state without noticing the offsets, which, I guess was caused by auto-flow of text (including auto page creation) from a spread which had different masters applied for left and right. For instance Master A for the left, Master B for right page. If you then paste text on the left page, let it flow to the right page and shift-click the eye-icon on the right page to start auto-flow, then all auto-created pages will have master B applied – according to the page where you started the flow, and no offset will happen, but margins would not be mirrored, corresponding to the single page master B which has no inner outer but different left and right margins.

So it seems you applied afterwards Master A on all even pages, which causes different margins (corresponding to the inner / outer difference on Master A).

What you could try is to interrupt the text flow, e.g. at page 13, and apply to 12 / 13 the Master A (or one you like, but a spread, no single page), then newly start the auto-flow with shift-click on page 13. This will cause new additional pages at the end of the document without the offset but margins corresponding with their master.

If you scroll now through the document you see the about the half of all spreads as empty, they contain only those items which have not been pinned as part of the text-flow. This means, it may be useful to pin all objects before you start the procedure with interruption of the text flow on e.g. page 13. – Also it would be useful to have as less as possible interruptions of the text flow (I haven't checked, just noted there are several before 12/13) – otherwise the procedure will be necessary several times and, probably worse, the various addition of pages and leaving empty pages in between can easily confuse. So maybe you create first 1 large text flow. – At the end you would have many totally empty pages that "just" need to get deleted to come back to the current 250.

Thank you. I'll have a good look at this.

[SheilaL]

1 hour ago, Old Bruce said:

Use the flow options in the Paragraph Panel for this, Start on: Next Odd Page

Do Not use blank paragraphs to space the text, use Space Before and / or Space After in the Paragraph Text Style. You also use Frame or Page Breaks in some places. I am guessing this is to create spaces for the images. Use the Pinning panel and the Text Wrap to make the space, as you are already doing.

You tend to override Paragraph Styles for no discernible reason. On Pages 20 and 21 you have overridden the Body Text paragraph style as well as the Body First Paragraph style for the three illustrations (1, 2, and 3). I would have made a Paragraph Style for these paragraphs, as there are many of them.

Here is a basic setup of the Master/Parent pages and a couple of Paragraph Styles to start with. Also note that I have the Page numbers applied to the other two Master/Parent pages.

Anthology bruce edit 04.afpub

Note the use of the 2 Group Styles; Base and Headings. I use these to base other styles which are quite similar, this way I only have to change indents or first line indents in new Paragraph Style to get a Quote or a First Paragraph paragraph style. The vast bulk of my Paragraph Styles' properties are set in the Group Styles. This way I only need to change the Font Family or Font size once and have it change automatically in two or three or seven related styles.

This is the first time I've had such a problem and I know I set it up all wrong, so thank you very much. 

[SheilaL]

18 minutes ago, SheilaL said:

This is the first time I've had such a problem and I know I set it up all wrong, so thank you very much. 

 

25 minutes ago, SheilaL said:

This is the first time I've had such a problem and I know I set it up all wrong, so thank you very much. 

On page 20 and 21, which you mentioned (and many others), why would the frames have shifted slightly to the left so they no longer line up with the master margins? 

[thomaso]

45 minutes ago, SheilaL said:

why would the frames have shifted slightly to the left so they no longer line up with the master margins? 

I assume the master were changed or different masters were assigned after the auto-flow page creation was done. This can happen for instance when a single page gets added in a facing page document with differing left/right masters.

Compare the currently assigned masters vs. the frame positions …

… and how the frames appear to fit to the margins when the assigned masters get switched:

[SheilaL]

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

I assume the master were changed or different masters were assigned after the auto-flow page creation was done. This can happen for instance when a single page gets added in a facing page document with differing left/right masters.

Compare the currently assigned masters vs. the frame positions …

… and how the frames appear to fit to the margins when the assigned masters get switched:

Except now Roger Rubin's essay starts on the wrong page. I know it's my own fault, but this book is about to drive me up the wall.