DeepDesertPhoto
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Posts posted by DeepDesertPhoto
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It took about a dozen images to finally get AP to crash again while applying the defringing filter.
Out of 12 images, 2 of them caused the program to crash.
I have a theory as to what might be causing it.
The images that caused the crash were photos of the sun reflecting off of water or shining thru tree limbs.
The intense sunlight caused the fringing to be excessively bright and probably overloaded the filter in some way when I selected a specific color shade to apply the filter to.
I have created a series of 5 screenshots showing the procedure I did before the program crashed.
I manage to complete the defringing using the live filter that you suggested as shown in images 06 and 07. But I still would like to know why the normal filter gets overloaded and crashes the program.
Screenshot Image 01 shows the original image after I have done all prior development work. The defringing was my final step before saving the final image.
As you can see in image 01 there is significant fringing in the lower left side where the sun is reflecting off of ice.
Images 02 and 03 are closeups showing how intense the fringing is for the individual pixel blocks.
Image 04 shows my selecting the dropdown menu for the normal defringing filter.
Image 05 shows the defringing panel with the settings and color shade I selected for defringing.
When I clicked the Apply button for the normal filter in image 05 that was when the program crashed.
Images 06 and 07 show my retrying by selecting the Live Filter option with similar settings on the filter panel.
When I applied the Live Defringe Filter it did finish the task and I was able to save the final result.
I hope this gives you insight as to why the program is crashing when I use the Normal Defringe Filter, and only the Live Filter seems to be able to deal with this.
I use the Normal Filters 99% of the time, so I would like to find out what is causing the crash.
Like I mentioned, my theory is that the color intensity might be overloading the Normal Filter.
In any case, it is a problem that should be looked into by the Serif Technicians.
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1 hour ago, Lee D said:
@DeepDesertPhoto It's also not something I can replicate on macOS Sequoia, testing with multiple images.
The crash report has references to the UI, apart from adjusting the sliders are you doing anything else before the crash?
If you switch to the Live Defringe filter instead, even if not working with multiple layers do the crashes occur?
Right now I am getting read to go on a photo trip so I won't be able to do anymore testing until I get back tomorrow.
But to answer your question, I am developing Nikon RAW photos shot with a D810 camera.
I use various presets I have created in the development persona for exposure, lens correction, and noise reduction before converting it to the pixel persona.
While in the pixel persona I perform HDR toning, various level adjustments, white balance corrections, and HSL enhancements.
All of those adjustments have never caused any crashes.
Because of the crashing I save the photo as an AP document before proceeding to the Defringing. This way I don't lose all of the prior adjustments if it crashes during the defringing.
The crashes have always occurred while applying the normal Defringe filter. I don't normally use the Live filter unless I am working with multiple layers.
But even that does not always cause a crash.
The crash seems to happen when I am trying to select a specific shade of purple to red to defringe.
I use an ultra-wide 20mm lens, and a rectilinear fisheye lens for a lot of my landscape photography.
Those lenses cause fringing toward the outer edge of the image.
The fringing colors seem to be in the red to purple range.
It is when I zoom in and select individual pixels for defringing that the crash occurs.
But like I said, it does not always happen. The crash seems to be triggered by a specific shade of purplish-red.
I was hoping the crash report would give a specific reason as to what is causing the crash.
I have to leave for my trip, so I will check back with you either later tonight or tomorrow.
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I did as you suggested and lowered the RAM and Disk usage back to their original defaults.
It seemed to work for a about a dozen images, but just today the program crashed again when trying to apply the Defringe filter.
I sent the crash report to Apple, who will relay it to Affinity Photo.
But I did save a copy of the report as a PDF file and uploaded here.
Perhaps you, or someone else here, can make sense of the report's jargon.
I'm not a computer expert so it looks like gibberish to me, but I suppose that someone who does computer coding for a living should be able to decipher it.
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37 minutes ago, Hangman said:
Hi @DeepDesertPhoto,
Thanks for the screenshot...
The first thing I would try is reducing both the RAM Usage Limit and Disk Usage Warning values to around half their current value, i.e., to around 32,768 MB, reboot and see whether you still experience the same crashes when working with your file...
Let us know how you get on...
I have always used the maximum RAM setting because the lower default setting caused memory limit warnings from my Mac when I was doing any complicated work.
But of course that was before the latest update. Maybe something changed with the newest update on how it uses the available RAM.
I will lower the RAM setting and see what happens.
If it continues to crash I will let you know.
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4 hours ago, Hangman said:
Hi @DeepDesertPhoto,
I've not been able to replicate this but could you confirm whether it happens with:
- The Normal (Filter → Colours → Defringe...) or Live (Layer → New Live Filter Layer → Colours → Defringe...) filter or both?
- Hardware Acceleration Enabled and Disabled (Settings → Performance → Hardware Acceleration)
Can you upload a sample image you've experienced the crash with so we can test it?
It doesn't happen all the time. It seems to crash when I zoom in and select a specific shade of pixel that I need to defringe.
I primarily use the Normal (Filter → Colours → Defringe...) because I am mostly working with a single image.
I don't use Live unless I'm working with multiple layers.
As far as my hardware settings I have included a screenshot of the current settings in the program.
Before I go to the trouble of uploading a 700 to 800 megabyte AP document here, please let me know if there is something I should change in the hardware settings first.
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I did a search for the following problem but nothing turned up, so I don't know if this has been reported yet.
Affinity Photo 2.5.7 has been randomly crashing while using the defringe filter.
I decided to report it here because just today it crashed on me at least 5 times.
I am using a 2021 MacBook Pro running Ventura 13.7.2
Every time it crashed the popup appeared saying that the program quit unexpectedly and gave me the option to report it to Apple.
I have sent the report every time so hopefully your techs are working on a solution for the next update.
All I can say is that it doesn't crash every time I use the defringe filter, but it does seem to have a problem with defringing certain shades of purple and reds which causes the crash.
Hopefully this problem has been reported before and an update is on the way because it is most annoying when it crashes in the middle of a procedure.
I have been compensating by saving the file as an AP document every time I make an adjustment so that if it does crash I don't lose the prior adjustments.
But regardless, this crashing does indicate some kind of problem with the program related to the Defringe filter.
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39 minutes ago, William Overington said:
The theme of the song is that not everybody can be a Mozart when it comes to playing music.
I remembered the song and it seems appropriate when the use of generative AI to produce images is criticised by people who are expert artists.
Yet you later clarified your position in relation to what I wrote about my use of generative AI, which I appreciate, thank you.
William
You're welcome. I understand what you were getting at with the video now. Because it was in a foreign language I wasn't sure what its purpose was at first.
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1 hour ago, Old Bruce said:
What I find amusing is that the entity looking at the images and making the decision is most likely an AI. I doubt they have an actual team of humans looking at them all and going yes, no, no, yes, yes,....
That's a possibility. The representative that I complained to had to manually examine my images himself before he realized that they were not AI generated. He admits that they use an algorithm to examine images being submitted for sale thru their site. Part of this is economics. Using an AI algorithm to review the incoming images is a lot cheaper than having a large staff of experts to review each image. But as can be seen by my complaint to them, it is causing false positives which forces them to manually look at the images anyway.
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1 hour ago, William Overington said:
Thank you. Some of you have that talent and ability. I know what I would like to produce but producing it is another matter.
Well, I have used Bing Chat AI to produce some paintings. I have bought a print of some of them. I have framed the prints. Nothing art industry about it, just uploading a jpg file to a website that advertises the production of a one-off custom greeting card from a photograph, except that it is not actually a photograph that is used, it is a jpg file containing the information of a photograph, so using a jpg file of an image generated using a computer program, or by an AI program, works fine - the business is fine with me doing that. The framing is just me framing the picture in a frame from a supermarket, sold as a frame for a photograph or a certificate. So two facilities that mention a photograph but no photograph actually used. I am pleased with the results. For those people who can do the work themself, fine, but not everybody has the ability to do that. So, for me, when I can specify details in a text prompt and observe them in an AI generated painting, I am delighted. I regard it as to some extent like transferring ideas from my mind into a permanent form, if I imagine a research centre, I can use a pen and paper or a computer to write a novel featuring it. I know that that is not exactly the same, but I tend to regard using generative AI in a similar sort of way as to using a pen and paper to convey ideas from my mind to a permanent form that other people can consider.
Yes.
However, not everyone has the ability to do that.
William
Not sure what the point of the video was.
But on the matter of AI created art, I understand what you're getting at. Many people have creative ideas but might have a hard time using traditional methods to bring their ideas to life. And I don't have a problem with someone experimenting with AI and making images for their own personal use. But I do have a problem with non-artists using AI to create realistic photos or illustrations by just typing commands into a keyboard and then selling those images as the real thing when they didn't actually shoot the photo or draw the lines in the illustration.
I've been making a living at this for over 20 years, and I spend a lot of time and money traveling to get the photos I need for my work. If someone, who has no photographic experience, can use AI to create a realistic photo of a place I spent time and money to go to in person, I treat that as a threat to my livelihood. I look at it as being like a student cheating on an important test.
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6 minutes ago, MEB said:
Hi @DeepDesertPhoto,
It's quite possible that Upscayl is what's triggering the warnings. The only thing I can suggest is to enlarge the image through traditional methods (resampling algorithms), edit the image to your heart's content, then submit it and check if it still triggers the warnings.I have tried that before and enlarging more than 25% using traditional methods creates distortions that are unacceptable to these agencies.
That is why in a separate thread Upscayl was actually recommended to me.
I have done comparisons of enlarged images done by AP and Upscayl, and Upscayl seems to be better, quality wise.In my opinion, these agencies need to learn how to distinguish between images that were created from scratch by AI and those that were merely enhanced.
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24 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:
But you do not know how "they" are determining that AI was used. You need to have that discussion with them, or you'll have to simply accept that they may reject some or all of your images for unknown reasons.
Just before I got a notification of your reply, I was in the process of sending the representative from the photography agency called RooM a message asking if certain AI tools like Upscayl could be triggering the algorithms they use to prescreen the image submissions.
I have been using Upscayl to enlarge older illustrations that I created between 2005 and 2012 using Photoshop. Those particular illustrations have resolutions below what is required now by some of the agencies I deal with. But the only way to enlarge them without creating distortions is to use Upscayl, or something similar like Topaz.
I asked the RooM representative if this would be a problem since an AI tool does not create an image from scratch but just enhances an existing image. Hopefully they will reply back soon.
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1 hour ago, Return said:
upscayl is an AI tool
Upscayl does not create anything. It only enlarges an existing image. That's not much different than other enlargement tools such as the program "Genuine Fractals" which has been used for years without being questioned. And like I mentioned, I place the enlarged image into a new layer within Affinity Photo where I make additional modifications using AP's tools, which are not AI according to Callum, who is a staff member.
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25 minutes ago, Callum said:
As others have mentioned we don't currently use AI in Affinity however did you happen to use Topaz plugins when creating this image? I had quick look online regarding this and it seems that DepositPhotos's AI detector can reject images that have been processed using Topaz sharpen AI.
As a side note it seems strange to me that the representative mentioned layer processing being the issue when you uploaded a .JPG so no layers should have been present within the file.
I don't have Topaz, or any other plugins. I recently updated from AP2.4.2 to AP2.5, so whatever is in it is whatever came with the update.
The only other program I have is Upscayl, which was recommended to me in a separate thread about converting rasterized images to vector for the purpose of scaling up to a larger size.
Right now the illustrations I'm working on are old that I originally created between 2005 and 2012 using Photoshop. They are under 2000 pixels so I have been using Upscayl to enlarge them. I found that Upscayl does a good job at enlarging an image without creating distortions.
After the enlargement, I then place the image into a new canvas layer using Affinity Photo. The new layer is in ROMM RGB 32 Bit color.
After I use Affinity Photo to make some modifications to the image, using the tools already in AP, I then flatten the layer and export it as a JPG to upload to the sites I sell thru.
The representative from RooM, told me that after additional examination they now realize that the image was not AI created, but for some reason the layer processing done by Affinity triggered the algorithms they use to prescreen the submitted images. They told me to make sure I state in the description of the image that it is not AI.
It's the same with Adobe. They require that I certify that any images I submit were not created by AI.
I am still having problems with DepositPhotos, however. They are being very obstinate about this issue.
Arguing with them is pointless because they have a policy that if an image is flagged as AI generated it cannot be resubmitted, even after I explained to them how I created it.
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2 hours ago, William Overington said:
Perhaps at some future time an enterprising company will offer a generative AI program together with all the images and associated metadata upon which it has been trained, all of the art being fully licensed with all of the licences published too.
Maybe that will be a Canva product.
William
That's possible. But I prefer to create my own illustrations and photo manipulations the old fashioned way. In my opinion, unless you're a high volume producer and need to produce large numbers of illustrations and manipulations in a short period of time, using AI is just being lazy and takes away the enjoyment of doing the work yourself. There is a certain satisfaction in showing that you have the creative skill to make something from your imagination instead of having an AI do it simply based on typed instructions.
- KarinC and William Overington
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6 hours ago, carl123 said:
If every attempt to convince them fails, turn the tables on them and threaten them with a lawsuit, citing defamation, denial of service, damaging your livelihood etc
If a news agency runs with the story, then the publicity of an artist trying to prove he is human should at least get you and your work noticed to a greater audience
PS Needless to say speak to a lawyer first as things could get messy (and costly) if say, they decided to simply close your existing accounts with them
Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't make enough money from these sites to make it worth calling a lawyer. Especially since it is only my illustrations that they are having issues with. Most of my work is nature and landscape photography. I only do illustrations on the side when I run out of photos to work on. I'm not going to sue over an image rejection that I can most likely sell thru another agency that's not as picky.
My original posting was just a question as to whether Affinity uses AI based algorithms since some photography and art related agencies are getting more picky about this stuff.
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20 hours ago, Return said:
It's because Adobe and other big companies are using (relying on their) AI to scan the images or whatever get's online now and this will give false positives.
It is a reversed world we live in that a creator needs to prove that he/she didn't use AI to create.😒
Unfortunately, AI Generative programs are growing, and I think the older stock photography agencies are struggling to come up with ways to deal with it that won't falsely accuse the artist of using AI.
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20 hours ago, PaulEC said:
It seems strange that Adobe should have a problem with using assistive AI in the creation of your own artwork, considering that they, apparently, use it extensively in their own software. I would assume that they are more concerned about "original" work that is generated using AI, rather than the use of AI to, say, cut out an object, or remove it using inpainting. (Which are things that are often requested to be included in Affinity.)
Adobe simply requires that I certify that my illustrations are not AI created. So far they've only rejected one image out of dozens I've sent them.
The agencies I'm having problems with are "RooM" and "DepositPhotos. I've been a contributor with them since 2006, and had no problems until recently.
I think they're afraid of lawsuits and if an image has any data in it that remotely looks like it was made by AI they would rather reject the image than ask me if it was AI created. -
20 hours ago, walt.farrell said:
What kind of file did you give them? And I'm surprised that any files generated by AI would have layers at all.
The Affinity suite is definitely not using AI yet.
Sorry for the late reply. I was gone all day on a photo trip.
To answer your question, here is a link for an illustration I created using Affinity Photo that was accepted by Adobe.
https://stock.adobe.com/stock-photo/id/814166006
However, the same image was rejected by DepositPhotos with them stating that they don't accept AI Generated images, even though I stated to them that I did not use an AI program. I've included a screenshot from DepositPhotos showing the rejection and their reason.
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3 hours ago, walt.farrell said:
Perhaps their AI detector has been trained on images similar to yours, or the AIs they're detecting have been trained on such images.
I don't know. The person I corresponded with just said that it was the way the layers were processed that triggered their alert. Since I don't know how the processing actually works I can only assume that there is something in the AP algorithms that is similar to the ones used in AI programs.
I just know that illustrations that were not a problem years ago are now being scrutinized more closely.
Adobe Stock actually requires that I certify my work is not being generated by AI. They also warn that my account can be suspended if it is proven that my submitted image was generated by AI.
That is why I am concerned about whether or not Affinity is using AI based algorithms for certain processing functions, because apparently there is something in the image I made using Affinity that they are detecting and mistaking for AI.
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1 hour ago, Affinityconfusesme said:
Affinity does not have AI yet but will have it soon, and only selection, not generative.
If that is true, then why would one of the agencies I sell my work thru say that their analysis of my illustrations have detected AI processing?
Is it possible that AP is using some algorithms or coding that is similar to what is used in other AI programs?
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I was wondering if Affinity Photo or Designer uses any AI based algorithms or other coding that mimic AI processing.
The reason for the question is because lately some of the stock photo agencies I sell my work thru have been rejecting my illustrations on suspicion that they were AI Generated.
All of my recent illustrations and photo manipulations were created using Affinity Photo.
When I contacted one of the agencies and asked why they thought my illustrations were AI generated one of them said that according to their analysis of the image the layers were processed in a way that appeared to be AI generated.
I told them that I was using Affinity Photo and to my knowledge it is not an AI Generative program, but just a photo editing program.
Am I wrong? Does Affinity use AI based algorithms for certain tools or functions?
I need to know because if AI is involved I might have trouble selling some of my work because many of the agencies I deal with don't accept AI generated images.
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31 minutes ago, Dan C said:
Many thanks for providing that for me and my sincerest apologies for the delayed response here!
I can confirm I'm seeing this same crashing behaviour on both Windows and macOS, it seems specific to this layer in your file - though I'm not 100% certain of the exact cause of this currently, therefore I will be logging this with our development team for further investigation.
In the meantime, if you select this Layer, then right-click in the Layers Studio and select Rasterise... you should then find you're able to use this Filter on the layer without the app crashing.
I hope this helps
Thanks for getting back with me.
Actually, while I was waiting for your reply I also did some experiments to see if I could get around this crashing problem.
I found it was crashing with the other layers too. The only layer that did not cause a crash was the bottom (6th) layer.
As part of my experimentation I re-rasterized all 6 layers and that seemed to fix the problem.
Just to let you know, this also could be related to Affinity Designer.
This file was originally created using Affinity Designer, but I needed to do some work on it that could only be done with Affinity Photo. So I opened the original Designer file with Affinity Photo and resaved it as an .afphoto document.
I then reopened it with AP to continue my work and that is when the crashes started occurring.
It is only a theory, but maybe this is a compatibility issue between Designer and AP created files.
Perhaps the original file had coding in it from Designer that did not get properly converted when I resaved it as an AP document.
That could be something to investigate.
I'll let you know if I have any further issues. -
4 hours ago, Dan C said:
Hi @DeepDesertPhoto,
Thanks for your report and I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble!
Unfortunately I'm unable to replicate this issue currently, so it may be specific to your document. Can you please upload a copy of your .afphoto file to the below link for me?
https://www.dropbox.com/request/NrlOZLHQcJIICwFAnO07
Once uploaded, please reply here to let me know. Included in your reply, can you please attach a screenshot of your settings under Affinity Photo 2 > Settings > Performance?
Many thanks in advance
I almost forgot.
Here is a screenshot of the settings panel.
Except for the RAM usage, and the Disk usage warning, I have left everything at the default settings.
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4 hours ago, Dan C said:
Hi @DeepDesertPhoto,
Thanks for your report and I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble!
Unfortunately I'm unable to replicate this issue currently, so it may be specific to your document. Can you please upload a copy of your .afphoto file to the below link for me?
https://www.dropbox.com/request/NrlOZLHQcJIICwFAnO07
Once uploaded, please reply here to let me know. Included in your reply, can you please attach a screenshot of your settings under Affinity Photo 2 > Settings > Performance?
Many thanks in advance
Thanks for your response. I am in Arizona so there is a big timezone difference between us.
I just finished uploading the file in question to the DropBox link you posted.
Here are two screenshots.
The first screenshot shows the file open and the filter dropdown menu.
The Shadows/Highlights filter is highlighted.
When I click that to make an adjustment on the 5th layer, which you can see in the layers on the right, the program freezes and then quits after about a minute or so of the spinning rainbow wheel.
The adjustment window never does pop up.
The 2nd screenshot shows the error report that pops up after the program quit.
I clicked "Send to Apple" so you should get the details of that when Apple forwards it to you.
I've got to go out today, so I may not be able to reply further until later today or tomorrow morning, but hopefully you can solve this problem.
Affinity Photo 2.5.7 crashes when using defringe filter
in V2 Bugs found on macOS
Posted
@Lee D Have you looked at my reply to you back on January 22nd?
The program crashed again today while working with the Defringe filter.
The crash occurred after using the Normal Defringe filter from the filter dropdown menu.
It crashed while trying to remove some pinkish to red fringing.
I did complete the defringing using the Live Filter Layer, but I would like to know why the program crashes with the Normal filter but not the Live Filter.
What is the difference between the two filters which essentially do the same thing.