Camera profile

[Pierre-Alain]

Hello, apparently, Affinity Photo does not allow to apply a camera profile to a raw picture (e.g.: Nikon D750 flat, or standard, etc.). Therrefore, could we say that while developing the raw file, Affinity keeps by default the camera profile that was selected at the shoot (= impossible to change profile after the shoot)? If it's the case, which profile is applied? Thank you. 

[DeePressland]

a.i.k. Affinity Photo likely applies a generic profile or a default processing curve to the RAW file upon import.

[Pierre-Alain]

Thank you. Yes it seems that no matter what camera profile I use (Flat with sharpness at 0, Flat with sharpness at 9, Standard, Neutral, Vivid), Affinity applies the same profile and once opened, these files all look alike. Unlike Photoshop that respect the camera profile and allows to modifiy it while developping the raw file. Highly annoying... May be Affinity is powerful enough to allow high- and lowlights recuperation.

[PROdult]

Adobe doesn’t just ‘respect’ camera profiles - they actively support them by including these profiles (as files) with Adobe products that use CameraRAW. Some of them, I believe, are Adobe’s own approximations, while others are provided directly by the camera manufacturer (such as Fujifilm). Camera profiles are not embedded in the RAW data, and as a small company without a dedicated RAW specialization, Serif hasn’t provided any.

In the latest versions of Photoshop, there’s even an AI-assisted model you can choose, which is pretty damn good. Other RAW processing software typically provides only a customized color profile, expecting the user to have their own profiles set up or to work with a generic one - especially in professional studio environments. But in short, this is one of the things you’re paying for with Adobe.I believe Adobe does this specifically to cater to hobbyists, semi-professionals, and professionals alike, providing a quick and accurate starting point for those who wish to use it.

Note that I’m specifically talking about color profiles here. When it comes to sharpness and other settings, I’m not actually sure if Adobe tries to replicate them as well. However, you should be aware that only the camera manufacturer knows the exact algorithms and settings behind things like Sharpness 4. The same goes for noise reduction, contrast, and other in-camera processing.

If you want a 1:1 match with these in-camera settings, the only guaranteed way is to use the manufacturer’s RAW converter, where the exact same algorithms as in the camera are applied.

This isn’t really an issue for professionals or trained individuals - one of the great advantages of RAW is that you can selectively retouch parts of an image. For example, you can apply sharpening only to the areas that need it, which is particularly useful for portraits, or apply aggressive noise reduction to the background while keeping the face untouched and natural.

[Ldina]

I believe @PROdult is correct. To the best of my knowledge, Adobe creates a set of "standard presets" (Camera Standard, Neutral, Vivid, etc) for all, or nearly all, camera models. They are different flavors, or recipes, that are applied during RAW development for different looks (most of which I never liked). I did like the ability to create my own custom camera profiles, which were much more accurate and pleasing than the Adobe standard presets. I believe that LibRAW, which Serif uses as the core for raw development, does not support custom camera profiles, so you get the original RAW data, without any special profiles, saturation or contrast boosts, etc. (using a generic profile that cannot be changed). So, RAW images will initially look somewhat flat, since no auto-enhancements are applied. 

I also agree that camera manufacturers know all the ins and outs of their own cameras, sensors, algorithms, dynamic range and color best, and will usually provide the most accurate RAW development. I use the Affinity Develop Persona because it is fast, convenient, and allows me to use RAW Layer Linked or Embedded, which keeps file sizes small and allows me to go back and forth as desired. I usually do most of my editing in Photo, so my preference is to bring a conservative, lower contrast image into Photo and work non-destructively. I know that isn't what everyone else does or wants (especially if one is accustomed to doing all their edits in a program like LR).

[lacerto]

DCP camera profiles, which Adobe RAW automatically reads in a camera profile list, once installed in expected location, used to be provided (I think) for most common camera models along installation of Photoshop and Lightroom, but nowadays need to be acquired or created separately e.g. using e.g. ColorChecker Camera Calibration software (currently 2.2.0 for Windows 2.3.0 for macOS), which is free software (as is dcpTool, an opensource project).

By reading in DNG files containing a ColorChecker Passport Photo, it is possible to create general purpose double-illuminant camera profiles, and single lighting condition camera profiles, and also single lighting condition ICC profiles. This allows easy creation of a profile for any camera for RAW (DNG) processing and accurate color production. Camera profiles are also supported at least by DxO PhotoLab, Exposure and CaptureOne.

UPDATE: I was wrong, Adobe still provides free DCP camera profiles (the most recent version comes with profiles for 1,306 camera models) with Adobe DNG Converter (available both for Windows and macOS).

[Spitfirejd]

On 2/4/2025 at 10:29 AM, lacerto said:

DCP camera profiles, which Adobe RAW automatically reads in a camera profile list, once installed in expected location, used to be provided (I think) for most common camera models along installation of Photoshop and Lightroom, but nowadays need to be acquired or created separately e.g. using e.g. ColorChecker Camera Calibration software (currently 2.2.0 for Windows 2.3.0 for macOS), which is free software (as is dcpTool, an opensource project).

By reading in DNG files containing a ColorChecker Passport Photo, it is possible to create general purpose double-illuminant camera profiles, and single lighting condition camera profiles, and also single lighting condition ICC profiles. This allows easy creation of a profile for any camera for RAW (DNG) processing and accurate color production. Camera profiles are also supported at least by DxO PhotoLab, Exposure and CaptureOne.

UPDATE: I was wrong, Adobe still provides free DCP camera profiles (the most recent version comes with profiles for 1,306 camera models) with Adobe DNG Converter (available both for Windows and macOS)..

Does Affinity Photo support DCP profiles and how do you access them? I want to get the Passport Photo, but I can't find anything that says whether Affinity supports it. 

[Ldina]

1 minute ago, Spitfirejd said:

Does Affinity Photo support DCP profiles and how do you access them? I want to get the Passport Photo, but I can't find anything that says whether Affinity supports it. 

No, Affinity's Develop Persona does NOT support custom camera profiles. 

[Spitfirejd]

Ah, thank you Ldina. That's a shame. I have a jewelry business and I need my product photos to as close to the actual colors as possible. Does that include ICC profiles?

Edited May 27 by Spitfirejd
added clarification

[Pierre-Alain]

I think that if you shoot raw, with a neutral (flat, linear) profile in-camera, shoot the 1st pic with a color chart (including neutral grey), develop with setting WB on the neutral grey, you should get the correct colors. 

[Spitfirejd]

That would be feasible, but if you believe Calibrite's website and the several pro photographers whose YouTube videos I watched about the Passport, that'll get you close but not quite all the way there. This really sucks as I refuse to use PS, LR and Capture One because of their subscriptions, hence switching to Affinity, but now I find they don't support color profiles when I really need them. 

[Ldina]

54 minutes ago, Spitfirejd said:

Ah, thank you Ldina. That's a shame. I have a jewelry business and I need my product photos to as close to the actual colors as possible. Does that include ICC profiles?

I used Photoshop, ACR and Lightroom for years and was used to using custom camera profiles, made using Xrite Passport, Adobe DNG profile Editor, etc. I was disappointed and thought I'd miss custom camera profiles when I moved to Affinity, but was pleasantly surprised that I did not. I'm very picky when it comes to color and have created hundreds of custom camera, monitor and printer profiles over the years, so I'm pretty picky. Remember, these companies want to SELL their product or service, so of course they'll hype it up and tell you you NEED their product. (I was a marketing and advertising director for a decade, so I've used those tactics myself!!)

Get the White Balance right and you should be good to go. Or, you can use other RAW processors, if desired. The OEM RAW software that comes with your camera is usually pretty darn accurate! Most RAW processors have their own special "flavor" and interpretation. LibRAW, which Affinity uses, does essentially Zippo, so you won't get any pumped up color, contrast, saturation, etc. Not everyone likes the Develop Persona, but I do, for various reasons (especially the RAW Layer Linked feature). I don't like to do a lot when processing RAW files anyway...I just want to get white, black, contrast, WB, Chromatic Aberration and noise close, then do the rest non-destructively in AfPhoto. FWIW. 

After editing your files, you can export to any color space you want. If you're posting on the internet, you'd probably want to use sRGB anyway. If printing, you can embed ICC profiles appropriate for your printer and process. You can edit in a wide color space, such as P3, Adobe RGB, ProPhoto RGB, or whatever, then export to whatever color space works for your needs. 

[Spitfirejd]

Thank you again, Ldina. That was a very thorough explanation. So I still should get the Calibrite setup so I can calibrate my monitor correctly, then shoot the color checker to get my white balance and exposure correct.  I can then import the images into Canon DPP software to batch process the RAW files and make any minor adjustments, then if I need to do any fancy masking or anything like that, I can export it to Affinity Photo for further processing. I'll likely be using DPP to tether my camera for my product shots anyways. 

[Ldina]

@Spitfirejd You're welcome. I'm not sure what  computer and monitor you are working on.

For decades, I calibrated my monitors regularly for accurate, white and black luminance, color temp, contrast, etc. I did that so my inkjet proofs would match the proofs provided by print vendors. I recently upgraded to a MacBook Pro M4, running Mac OS 15 (Sequoia). I calibrated my monitor and found my custom calibration almost identical to Apple's profile, so I just stuck with the Apple default. My MBP built-in Retina display supports up to approximately +4 f-stops of extended dynamic range (only for HDR type work), but it has many different settings for different purposes...photography, print, etc. I created some dedicated presets (easy to do) and use them all the time. Some people may gasp, but I don't even calibrate my monitor anymore. Quality Control (at least with my MBP) is so good that I don't find it as necessary as I once did. Twenty years ago, it was a different ballgame. 

People viewing your images online will have their monitors set however they like them...warm, cool, super bright, dim, high contrast, low contrast, and everything in between. As long as you use a reasonable brightness level and color space (P3, sRGB, Adobe RGB,etc, are all reasonable choices), your images ought to look good. sRGB is safest for the internet, since even non-color managed apps, platforms and browsers assume sRGB. If people need to see a super accurate representation of your jewelry, their ambient viewing conditions and monitors will need to be calibrated the same as yours! Haha...good luck with that.

Print may be a different matter if you are printing catalogs on Press, etc. 

[Spitfirejd]

@Ldina I have a MacBook Pro M3 with Sequoia, so have the same presets. I tried the photography one and it looked super blue to me. I agree that everyone will see them differently, but I have a bit of OCD so I like to be able to say "the colors posted are accurate, if it looks funny to you it's your monitor" lol

[Ldina]

28 minutes ago, Spitfirejd said:

 I have a MacBook Pro M3 with Sequoia, so have the same presets. I tried the photography one and it looked super blue to me. I agree that everyone will see them differently, but I have a bit of OCD so I like to be able to say "the colors posted are accurate, if it looks funny to you it's your monitor" lol

Haha...I understand...I'm a bit OCD myself. 

You can create your own presets and choose white luminance, color temp, and gamma on your MBP if you wish. 

Below, in the red rectangle, are 4 presets I created. I found Apple's Photography Preset using 160 cd/m2 pretty bright, and too bright for my ambient conditions. I created three different D65 presets...120, 100, and 80 cd/m2. My lighting changes throughout the day (far from ideal), so I use 120 cd/m2 during the day, and when it gets darker, I sometimes use 100 or 80 cd/m2, which is more appropriate for dim to dark ambient conditions. Most papers are warmer than 6500K, so you can see I created a preset for 120 cd/m2, P3 color space, and a white point of 5750K, which works well with most of my papers. I can switch between monitor profiles with a few clicks, which is very convenient. The 5750K preset is warmer and a better match for printed work. I normally stick with D65, since these days, the majority of users have monitors that are close to 6500K. If I'm being persnickety and want a great monitor to print match, I'll switch to 5750K. Some papers are warmer and others cooler, but 5750K seems to be a pretty good compromise. 

My prints are a close match to my monitor when using 5750K. Even D65 isn't bad.