Footnot empty space

[Hussard64]

Hi,

I'm still struggling with Footnotes and as you see here on the screenshots, for one specific page, I have a not understandable white space under the footnote. No idea why? Can you help ?

 

R,
Frank

[Oufti]

Hello Hussard64!

I suspect it could be a case of too many constraints to apply altogether… 

Would you be kind to post screen captures of the paragraph Flow options, one when a word in the 1st paragraph [Under the Marshall's orders …] is selected, and another one when the 2d paragraph [Be that as it may, …] is selected? 

Perhaps also have a look at the Position settings for the Notes? Or Text frame > Columns > Balance text in columns?

 

[Hussard64]

Dear Oufti,

 

Please find all requested screenshots attached.

[Oufti]

Thank you very much for providing these captures. Alack, none of the scenarios I imagined that could lead to this mess seems to apply but… I remark now something I didn't yesterday. 

The note on the left page is not complete, it seems to be the continuation of a longer note on previous page. Then there is probably not enough space left in your column to place the last 3 lines of the body paragraph, plus the note #26, plus the first two lines of the next body paragraph.

[Hussard64]

Thanks for your reply, but I can't believe there isn't enough place. As you can see on my simulation, most of the text of the second column as both footnotes can fill the gap...

There must be another reason. But which one ?

[Oufti]

Je donne ma langue au chat… 😔

[≈ I don't have any idea anymore…]

 

[Hussard64]

Thanks Oufti

 

I hope that someone else could have an idea....I'm also puzzled !

My gut feeling is at the level of the Footnotes parametrized with document-wide or custom and all the other parameters which are rather tricky and not always self explanating.

[MikeTO]

Do you have text wrap turned on for the image? I think there is a known bug with text wrap and footnotes where changing the text wrap Distance From Text values can cause the footnote position to jump dramatically. If you have it on, play around with the Distance values to see if you can nudge it back into place.

If text wrap is off, I would have thought it was Flow Options but the settings look fine, at least for the Article Text style. Perhaps take a screenshot of the Flow Options for the footnote text style?

[Hussard64]

Dear Mike,

Please find attached my screenshot.

As you can see, even by removing the image, the gap remains and you see also the Flow options of the footnotes.

[MikeTO]

Some more tests.

Try turning text wrap off for the image (or deleting it image entirely) and not just moving it to the right side. There's an outside chance that the text wrap is still impacting the flow. It shouldn't but does this make a difference?

Put it back to the way it was or close the document and open it again. Delete the last line of footnote 26. Does it fit now? Delete another line of footnote 26, does it fit? Repeat until it fits and let me know when it fits.

Open the document again and delete a line of text at a time from the continued footnote 25. When does it fit?

I have a couple of theories about what the bug is and these tests could narrow it down. Or just send me the document and I'll test it and figure it out. If you're able to share the document publicly here that would be great. If you're able to send it to me privately, I'll message you with an email address. I don't need to see the full document, just from the start of this story (the linked series of frames) up to the end of this page. I don't need any linked images if they're linked, the low res previews are sufficient for a text flow test.

[Hussard64]

Dear Mike,

It fits when I delete the last sentence of the footnote 25 on the left (see screenshot). I hope it will help you identifying the bug.

If it is still needed, tell me how can I send you the file.

Best regards,
Frank

[MikeTO]

Can you share a screenshot of the text wrap settings and does turning off text wrap on the image also fix it?

If turning off text wrap doesn't fix it then I'll need to see the file and will send you an address.

[Hussard64]

Here is the image text wrap option

When I turn it off, the gap is not filled.

 

[MikeTO]

I'll send you an email address to send the file since my text wrap theory didn't pan out.

[MikeTO]

The problem is the use of Split Notes and Text Wrap together as I was thinking but I was looking at the wrong picture. The bottom picture is irrelevant, it's the top one. In fact, footnote 26 is irrelevant, too, it's just footnote 25 and the top picture's text wrap.

To work around this bug, I recommend turning off text wrap on the top picture. Choose Layer > Master Page > Edit Detached and then drag the text frame's top middle handle so that its top is below the picture. Click Finish when you're done. This will avoid the use of text wrap which triggers the bug and will avoid overlapping the picture with text. I tried that and it worked well.

Good luck, and I hope you don't have too many other pages like this!

[MikeTO]

One more suggestion - you could change this one footnote from Document-Wide to Custom and turn Split Notes off and the problem would go away. Of course that means a small gap on the previous page but that's a lot simpler than editing detached.

Good luck.

[Hussard64]

14 hours ago, MikeTO said:

The problem is the use of Split Notes and Text Wrap together as I was thinking but I was looking at the wrong picture. The bottom picture is irrelevant, it's the top one. In fact, footnote 26 is irrelevant, too, it's just footnote 25 and the top picture's text wrap.

To work around this bug, I recommend turning off text wrap on the top picture. Choose Layer > Master Page > Edit Detached and then drag the text frame's top middle handle so that its top is below the picture. Click Finish when you're done. This will avoid the use of text wrap which triggers the bug and will avoid overlapping the picture with text. I tried that and it worked well.

Good luck, and I hope you don't have too many other pages like this!

Thanks a lot Mike, you're the best  I will try as soon as possible and keep you posted.

I really appreciate your golden support.

I guess that you will submit the bug to Affinity?

Kind regards

[MikeTO]

58 minutes ago, Hussard64 said:

Thanks a lot Mike, you're the best  I will try as soon as possible and keep you posted.

I really appreciate your golden support.

I guess that you will submit the bug to Affinity?

You're most welcome. I'll take care of the bug report, there are a couple of footnote layout issues and this may be one that Serif is already aware of.

Cheers

[MikeTO]

BTW while this other footnote + text wrap spacing bug isn't directly related, it might be good to group them. And also FYI for @Hussard64 because in general Tight wrapping seems to work better than Square right now, although it won't fix your issue. Tight and Square do the same thing for rectangular shapes so you might as well use Tight.

 

[Hussard64]

On 4/10/2024 at 4:47 PM, MikeTO said:

BTW while this other footnote + text wrap spacing bug isn't directly related, it might be good to group them. And also FYI for @Hussard64 because in general Tight wrapping seems to work better than Square right now, although it won't fix your issue. Tight and Square do the same thing for rectangular shapes so you might as well use Tight.

 

Thanks for the info.