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2 hours ago, David in Яuislip said:

This article
may be useful, it suggests that there is a Lightroom export option for metadata which may avoid this problem

Thanks David, for the article link and good contributions on this subject. I will probably make these changes in my LR setup. 

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As the setting that triggers Photoshop behavior is something that is saved by camera within Raw Data itself, like this:


...I suppose disabling saving raw data with JPGs would be the easiest method to avoid the issue.

In Photoshop, the behavior (when "AlreadyApplied" is False) is determined by this setting in the Preferences, and it seems that the default is "Disable" in older versions of Photoshop (this is from PS CS6):


...while the feature seems to be by default enabled in newer versions of Photoshop (this is from PS 24.2.0):


The user can also bypass the Camera Raw interface if they choose to open an image by using "Open As", and then choosing JPG as the extension.

Perhaps Serif could add something like this in the Export options (these screenshots are from PS 24.2.0):


...and in context of exporting single images with "Export As":


Including "Copyright and Contact Info" results in following data beiing included within Raw Data (I excluded/hid your detailed contact information) :

<x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="Adobe XMP Core 9.0-c001 79.14ecb42, 2022/12/02-19:12:44        ">
   <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">
      <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
               <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default">All Rights Reserved</rdf:li>
         <xmpMM:DerivedFrom rdf:parseType="Resource">
         <photoshop:AuthorsPosition>Photographer / Designer</photoshop:AuthorsPosition>
         <photoshop:ICCProfile>sRGB IEC61966-2.1</photoshop:ICCProfile>
         <xmp:CreatorTool>Adobe Photoshop 24.2 (Windows)</xmp:CreatorTool>
               <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default">Ldina</rdf:li>
               <rdf:li xml:lang="x-default">20220618-IMG_5684</rdf:li>

....and the JPG will no longer be opened in Camera Raw view in Adobe apps.

So, long story short: Adobe has chosen to edit (partially strip) camera-written Raw Data in context of JPG export, letting the user to choose what kind of meta data will be exported for common usage (none at all, or just basic data). Why could not Serif do the same? Your request is certainly valid. 

EDIT: I do not really know whether Adobe XMP meta data (optionally including the "AlreadyApplied" tag) is really included in Raw data written by camera, or something added e.g. by Lightroom, but both Lightroom and Photoshop mark the tag as True after having processed a raw file and subsequently exporting as JPG, so it would be interesting to know what the procedure was to have a JPG saved with "AlreadyApplied" tag left with the value of "False".

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@lacerto Thank you for the added information.

I do not have a dedicated metadata viewer, only what is available in AP, LightRoom, ACR or PS, so I decided to upload a Zip file with different versions of the same file, In case anyone wants to review them. Anyway, here's what is included and some background on what I did and the software and platform I am using. 

1. I took a flash photo with my Canon 5Dmk2 and copied it to my desktop without importing it into LightRoom. I renamed the file IMG_5932-Never Opened.CR2. I didn't import it in any software, convert to DNG, or anything else, so this should retain the pristine metadata as written by my camera.

2. I copied a 2nd version of this file to my MacBook Pro desktop from my card reader and renamed it IMG_5932-Opened in AP ONLY.CR2. These are both left in Canon's native CR2 format. I opened this file in AP v2.0.4 Develop Persona (File > Open), made only a White Balance Adjustment, then open it in AP. I left the import setting from the Develop Persona to retain a "link" to the RAW CR2 file. 

3. The 3rd file is IMG_5932-Opened in AP ONLY.AfPhoto. I simply saved what opened in AP from the Develop Persona in step 2.

4. I saved the AfPhoto file in step 3 as IMG_5932-Opened in AP ONLY.JPG, using Affinity's standard High Quality JPG present, which includes all metadata by default. The other option is to strip all metadata, which I have not included. 

5. The final image is 20230318-IMG_5932.DNG. It is the same exact file, but was imported into LightRoom v6.14 on my MacBook Pro from the same card reader. My LR import routine adds the Date to the beginning of the file name, applies a custom camera profile, adds my name, address, copyright information, converts the CR2 file to DNG file format and adds it to the LR database. I didn't want to open this DNG file in Photoshop or Affinity Photo because I didn't want to take a chance changing any metadata that LR might have written to the DNG file on import, so whatever is in the metadata of the DNG file should be what Canon provided, or what LR added during the import process. If one chooses to open the file in Photoshop from LightRoom, the file that is saved by Photoshop and written back into the LR Catalog almost certainly alters the metadata when saving, but I did not include such a file. I wanted to preserve the data in the DNG file as imported, so that's why I didn't do this. I'm pretty certain that Photoshop does alter the metadata when saving a JPG, TIFF, PNG, etc, to flag it as a non-RAW file.

If a CR2 RAW file is imported into LightRoom, and is NOT converted to DNG, an XMP sidecar file is created. I believe this is done by LR upon import to house additional setting and slider fields when the raw file is adjusted inside of LR or ACR. Converting the file from CR2 to DNG when importing into LR eliminates the need for the extra sidecar file because the DNG format is designed to accommodate this extra metadata. I just wanted to note that AP did not generate an XMP sidecar file on my desktop. AP may not need this XMP file, or maybe it is written elsewhere. 

If anyone is interested in looking at the metadata and analyzing what is happening, I uploaded a zip file. Thanks.

Canon5Dmk2 Images.zip

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Thanks for the update. I need to put some time in this. I am not a photographer and have pretty elementary understanding of RAW workflows, especially modern ones, so I have written some confused text above e.g. related to RAW data in JPG formats.

It seems that the issue is related to ability to use e.g. DNG image format converted from the initial .CR2 (which, as far as I know, does not have any Adobe XMP Raw Data descriptive information included), and this operation appears to embed Adobe Raw tags including the "AlreadyApplied" tag which stays "False" until the image is developed. I checked the way DxO PhotoLab behaves, and this specific app, when it processes a CR2 image and exports it to Affiniy Photo in JPG format, does not include the "AlreadyApplied" tag, but if exported in DNG format, does include it and its value is False. So this route, at least, explains how this tag gets in a file exported / opened in Affinity Photo (at least in version 2), and how, when subsequently exported to JPG, will have this tag exported with the rest of the meta data, and causes the non-desired behavior.

Anyway, DxO PhotoLab, too, has options for the kind of meta data to include in exports, like this:


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I guess this decision resolves the issue. In my tests only .DNG conversion introduced that tag (and with False value), including the .DNG conversion in your most recent post, while basically all apps that export to JPG appear to strip Camera RAW meta data. DxO does it for JPG, and also for TIFF. If a .DNG file is exported directly in Affinity Photo (e.g. using DxO PhotoLab), the image is simply just opened for editing, not developed. If it is saved on disk from DxO PhotoLab and opened in Photo, it will be opened in Developer Persona (and when developed, the value of "AlreadyApplied" tag stays "False").


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22 minutes ago, lacerto said:

I guess this decision resolves the issue.

That it does! Thanks for your contributions, and to all others who chimed in.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that LR/ACR writes these RAW metadata tags to the DNG file, (and perhaps to the CR2 file or to its XMP sidecar file). It remains there even when I open that DNG directly into AP. If the appropriate metadata is not altered or stripped on export, the JPG will open ACR when other Photoshop users open the file. This change will solve the issue.

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1 hour ago, Walter Rowe said:

Look at Adobe Camera Raw preferences. Those control whether files open in camera raw. It happens a lot with TIFF files too. Users of other apps have reported this.

@Walter Rowe Thank you, Walter. Interesting! I have those settings verified now in my version of Camera Raw, so all is good for me personally (now that I understand what's going on).

I was concerned about the thousands of people who use ACR or LR for their RAW files, and who export JPGs, PNGs and TIFFs from AP with standard export settings (which embeds all metadata). People on the receiving end, (e.g., Ad agencies, newspapers, designers, photographers, etc.), would be confused when opening a JPG in Photoshop and having it launch ACR with a bunch of color slider adjustments. The changes Serif intends to make should prevent this from happening.


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