Objects in locked group or layer are selectable and transformable (especially problematic for "Select same") [AD 2 2.0.3]

[pnolle]

Hi all,
I'm using AD 2 2.0.3, which is the current version.

My understanding of a locked object group and of a locked layer is that no objects in that group or layer should be selectable or transformable. My use case for that is to keep an instance of a group before performing complex transformations to be able to go back to it.

In fact, locking does not work. Here's some objects in a locked group within a locked layer, selected via marquee and transformed via drag:


Hiding the layer does not help:

For "Select same" it's even worse: Here's a second row of objects. The upper one is in a locked group on a locked layer, the bottom one is visible and unlocked. The selection was made by first selecting one yellow graphic manually, then using "Select same" => "Fill & Stroke Colour" to select the other ones (intending to only select the ones that are not locked!). However, it selects all yellow graphics (also the locked ones, which were also hidden at that time) and when I drag them, they are all transformed:

During all that time, the "Edit all Layers" option was disabled. But I tried both - it makes no difference.

The only thing the locking function does is to keep me from dragging the whole group, but it doesn't protect its contained objects in any way. If this is not a bug, it's at least counterintuitive: Every child object of a locked "thing" should be locked as well. Could you please advise what I'm doing wrong or confirm this behaviour as a bug?

Thanks,
Nik

[loukash]

1 hour ago, pnolle said:

My understanding of a locked object group and of a locked layer is that no objects in that group or layer should be selectable or transformable.

That's not the understanding of the Serif engineers, hence locked objects are selectable and editable. You just can't move them.

1 hour ago, pnolle said:

locking does not work. Here's some objects in a locked group within a locked layer, selected via marquee

You may have likely enabled the (new in v2) context toolbar button "Select Item in Group". affinity.help/designer2/pages/Tools/tools_move.html

1 hour ago, pnolle said:

The only thing the locking function does is to keep me from dragging the whole group, but it doesn't protect its contained objects in any way.

That's "by design". Not everyone is happy about it, but that's how it currently works.

1 hour ago, pnolle said:

it's at least counterintuitive: Every child object of a locked "thing" should be locked as well.

Yes, that's how it works in many other apps.
(Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, the "absolute lock" wasn't always my ideal workflow either. It takes some time to get used to it, but meanwhile I get along with the Affinity locking concept pretty well.)

1 hour ago, pnolle said:

Could you please advise what I'm doing wrong

Lock the child objects as well to prevent their dragging or transforming:

1. select one of them
2. disable Edit All Layers in Layers panel
3. Select All (selects now only objects on the same hierarchy level)
4. Lock

[pnolle]

Thanks for the clarification @loukash!
I still don't like it but at least there are ways to handle it. I still hope they will implement a "group lock mode" or whatever you might call it. After all, you said it yourself, "that's how it works in many other apps" - which means that a lot of people will be confused and probably disappointed by how it's done here.

[loukash]

1 minute ago, pnolle said:

a "group lock mode"

Well, a locked group of objects inside a locked Group layer is already pretty much locked in a way that you really need to select an object deliberately in the Layers panel to be able to do anything with it…  

4 minutes ago, pnolle said:

a lot of people will be confused and probably disappointed by how it's done here

Yeah, but that's no news anymore. It's often because so many users are expecting an Adobe clone and cannot imagine that workflows can also be done differently. Hey, been there done that. It took me six years to finally switch from Adobe CS5.5 to Affinity. (Not sure if they are still online, but my early forum posts were also quite angry, haha.)

[pnolle]

1 hour ago, loukash said:

my early forum posts were also quite angry, haha

😅 You're right, new workflows definitely deserve a chance. What initially convinced me to buy Affinity 1 a while ago was that it seemed so much easier to navigate within those documents and I actually enjoyed the differences. While at the same time I must confess that I'm all but a power user - I've worked with all kinds of graphic programs for ages, but I'm not a pro.

What actually brought me to these questions was a different task: I created a matrix consisting of that small graphic in the screenshots symbolizing a LED (which worked great using align + space), then placed a logo graphic on top if it and then I tried selecting all of the small graphics underneath the logo graphic. I'm used to this kind of selection from using GIS, but I found no way of doing this in a vector graphic program.
(I wanted to keep only the ones covered by the logo with the final goal of counting them and make a "shopping list" of LED strips that I need to buy. My workaround was to "add" all LEDs into one geometry - that what I needed the selection for - , then cut out the logo, "geometry" => "divide" the LEDs and finally count them.)
Do you think that this kind of GIS-/CAD-style selection would be a use case for more "graphics people"?

[loukash]

No idea what GIS is (apart from the Central European "Gis" which stands for the "G sharp" musical note, aka G# )
"Geographic Information System"?

[Paul RB]

@pnolle I agree with you on this and have come unstuck with ‘locked’ things not being locked at all (i.e. locked to prevent access per the dictionary definition). I have struggled to make this work and what is even more frustrating is, when I have used parameters like select ‘same’ and this has allowed selection of locked objects, I have not been able to deselect the locked objects using CTRL click (as the objects all then deselect) which would have been considerably quicker than having to select the ones I did want manually from scratch instead. I have found this frustrating and it certainly ‘feels’ like a bug to me. 

[dtm0]

"Locked" means locked in any other software I've ever used, 2D, 3D, etc.  Parent, Child, etc., all locked, and easily lockable from the Main layers.  I have 20k contour lines.  Unmanageable any other way.  Good lord.  May have to actually spring for CC...