Cut & Paste using frame text tool resizes symbols

[multis]

1.10.5 seems to have surfaced the old annoyance of frame text tool selected cut & paste cause symbols to resize. If I select the same symbols using the regular arrow and do CTRL+C, change to frame text tool and then CTRL+V, the symbols do not resize.

But selecting things to be copied using frame text tool and pasting with the same tool (as  you should be able to do) makes the symbols tiny. It seems to differ how tiny, but most often I'll get exactly half. 5x5 mm symbol turns to 2,5 x 2,5 mm and that is extremely time consuming to fix. On some occasions the resized symbol becomes 0,01 mm in size... All symbols are vector images on a fixed size picture frame. All symbols are also inserted INLINE, are using baseline positioning and work on most documents quite nicely.

I would be very happy to find how to make sure this resizing does not occur. When cut & pasting, under no circumstances should Publisher unilaterally decide to rescale anything.  

I attached an example. When I cut & paste this segment, if I need to manually resize all 6 symbols, that is a huge problem. It increases the work hours needed to layout a single rulebook sheet considerably. Effectively doubles the time needed. 

And again, this did happen at some earlier point (I believe 1.9.x version) and was later fixed. Didn't happen with 1.10.4 and now does happen on SOME files with 1.10.5.

[walt.farrell]

Are you pasting into the same file you copied from, or a different one?

If a different one, do your source and target files both have the same DPI? Text will rescale if pasted into a file with a different DPI, I think. I'm not sure if that is expected, or if it's logged as a bug.

[multis]

15 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Are you pasting into the same file you copied from, or a different one?

If a different one, do your source and target files both have the same DPI? Text will rescale if pasted into a file with a different DPI, I think. I'm not sure if that is expected, or if it's logged as a bug.

Same file. 

[walt.farrell]

Thank. No other ideas at this time; sorry.

[Dan C]

Hi @multis,

Sorry to hear you're having trouble!

I've tried testing this here with a basic symbol and I'm not seeing the same behaviour - so I'd like to request a copy of your document to test this further here.

Can you please attach a copy of your document to the below link for me, then once uploaded reply here to let me know?

https://www.dropbox.com/request/rpmQ8JyUOEvsPgdwuqr5

Many thanks in advance

[multis]

47 minutes ago, Dan C said:

Hi @multis,

Sorry to hear you're having trouble!

I've tried testing this here with a basic symbol and I'm not seeing the same behaviour - so I'd like to request a copy of your document to test this further here.

Can you please attach a copy of your document to the below link for me, then once uploaded reply here to let me know?

https://www.dropbox.com/request/rpmQ8JyUOEvsPgdwuqr5

Many thanks in advance

Uploaded now. Please note that like I mentioned, I have several files using the same symbols and this happens on SOME of those files.

But with this file is seems to be recurring. This file experiences also from the crash problem that made separate bug report. To use this file at all, it takes 3-6 cases of opening the file. If Publisher does not crash within first 3-6 seconds, it will work. But most often it really takes several attempts before it is 'stable enough'. I had no such problems with 1.10.4 either. 

[multis]

I can reproduce the problem on any of the symbols on the 2nd column on page 2 for instance. Even if I copy symbol using frame text tool and paste the same symbol in its place. It will be changed to 50% size.

[walt.farrell]

Possibly an effect of the symbol having been created, then pasted into a Text Frame that had been rescaled (using the detached lower-right handle), then copied from that rescaled text frame into a new text frame with a different scaling factor (or not rescaled at all)?

That might show something like this, and would iteract in odd ways with font size.

[multis]

And pray tell me how this is possible with symbols that work flawlessly on many other documents on same text style font size. And considering that as I mentioned. if I set the symbol correctly (eg. the picture frame is 5x5 mm) and then copy the very same frame using frame text tool and paste it in the exactly same spot, it becomes 2,5x2,5 mm picture frame.

If I copy it using Move Tool (or selecting it from layers view) and THEN paste it in exactly same place, it works as 5x5 mm picture frame.

NOTE that if I COPY the symbol using 'move' tool I *CAN* paste it multiple times using Frame Text Tool without resizing. But on every occasion where COPY is done using Frame Text Tool to select the symbol(s), all symbols are resized, no matter where I paste those. And on this document the resizing is always to 50% of both dimensions. 

 

[multis]

This can be replicated also by simply using following steps:
- Make picture frame of 5x5 mm. CTRL+X that frame. Select Frame Text tool to insert that frame in the text.
- Insert for instance this symbol in the picture frame.
- Copy the said frame using MOVE tool and paste it in the same place. It works.
- Copy the said frame using Frame Text Tool and paste it in the same place. It becomes 2,5 x 2,5 mm frame.
Doesn't matter if the symbol is linked or embedded. It STILL works the same.

I even tried to redo the whole file. I made template of same dimensions and copied the master file. If I copy the same stuff to a new file, it DOES resize. So something is causing the resizing on this particular file (and some others) and DEARLY like to know what that something is. If I copy the content to an empty file with NO MASTER file, it works okay. When the symbols are pasted the size stays the same.

So. My humble observation is that something on this particular master page is causing it. 
Note that EVEN IF I use text frame  to paste on this file OUTSIDE OF THE MASTER, it STILL resizes. It does not matter WHERE the content is copied, as if I cut & paste using text frame tool on another file and paste it here, it STILL resizes all symbols to half.

[multis]

I did further research. I took another copy of the chapter of the same book. Deleted all pages. Added empty pages. Copied all content there. It works.

Please note that master pages of that file and the "broken" file are copies of each other. But somehow one works and another doesn't.
This file works. While the one I uploaded previously does not. Same master files. Same symbols. Same content. 

What has changed in the file where it doesn't work? Note that also that file DID work for quite some time, but when I added two more pages and applied master pages it stopped working. This time copying all was still somehow possible. But that isnt something I can do for every file when *something* changes on master file and symbols begin to resize.

So, somehow Publisher does find means to corrupt the master page in such a way that if I cut & paste specifically using frame text tool, it WILL resize the symbols. This time the resize factor is 50%. But I've seen it also resizing to 1%.
 

[Dan C]

Many thanks for your file provided - my apologies as I believe I misunderstood the original report. I thought you were 'selecting' (ie directly clicking on an object) with the Text Frame Tool active, however I can now see your linked documents are 'inline' with your text, so you are 'selecting' the linked document and copy and pasting this as though it is a text symbol. This would explain why I was unable to replicate this originally, my apologies!

I'm able to replicate this behaviour here and I don't believe it is happening due to text frame 'scaling' applied (as Walt mentioned above), which is done by resizing the text frame from the additional handle in the bottom right corner - 

I have however been able to replicate this behaviour in a new document, and may have found an explanation for the cause of this.

Do you recall when you set this documents DPI to be 600? Was this done after creating the file, or during creation?

Essentially, if I copy text with inline data from your current document and paste into a new file, the size is correct. If I then increase the DPI of this file from 300 to 600, then copy and paste the same text from this new document to the same frame in the new document, the scaling is applied at exactly 50%. I would also imagine if you applied a DPI change that was different from exactly 2x, (ie 300 - 400) then you would see different scaling on the pasted text.

This is, as far as I'm aware, a bug within the app which I'm logging with our developers now

[multis]

Wow. Quite unlikely bug. If changing resolution of file actually means  that since then cut & paste uses the previous resolution somehow, that is quite annoying. 
Most often we do set files to 600 dpi at creation time, but as this is not file I originally created, it is hard to say.

And yes, that truly sounds like a bug. It doesn't quite explain how I have seen symbols going to 0,01 mm x 0,01 mm in size on exactly same kind of event.

I doubt I would have increased the resolution that much... But what IS possible  that the linked symbol files have seen resolution set change. If this is actually working as a multiplier of some sort, that could cause very big changes.

Like create a document at 300 dpi, add symbol done at 150 dpi, increase the documents resolution to 600 and symbol files resolution to 600 dpi.

That would likely mean 50% * 25% = 12,5% of the original. Still far away from going to 1%, but it is not entirely impossible that symbols themselves couldn't have seen even bigger resolution changes.

[Dan C]

7 minutes ago, multis said:

Wow. Quite unlikely bug.

Certainly so! Walt actually helped our team indirectly with his first response in regards to documents DPI - as we were initially trying to replicate this by scaling the text frame itself and had not considered the documents DPI being changed, so many thanks to @walt.farrell 

9 minutes ago, multis said:

If this is actually working as a multiplier of some sort, that could cause very big changes.

Agreed, that's certainly possible and would explain some of the sizes you have been seeing - however I couldn't confirm for certain without our developers input.

We believe you shouldn't experience this in further documents if the file is created at the required DPI, but if you do find any further information that may be relevant please do let me know and I'll be happy to update the development log!

[multis]

So when is this fixed? I mean if I need to know the DPI of everything in advance and can never change it again without it being resized automatically this is truly annoying.

[Dan C]

I can confirm this issue is still logged with our developers, however I can see that the team have commented on this issue internally and are in the process of investigating a fix - however I'm unable to provide an exact time frame at this time, our sincerest apologies for any inconveniences caused in the meantime due to this.

[multis]

Is this fixed in 10.6?

[Dan C]

Unfortunately this issue remains open currently in both V1 & v2 - a fix was implemented for V2 according to our developers, however this was failed by our QA and returned to the devs.

I will 'bump' the issue for you now, though our plans for V1 remain as follows;

Quote

While V1 will no longer receive any feature updates, we will endeavour to fix any critical issues which may be caused by operating system updates for as long as is reasonable to do so.

Therefore I'd be unable to guarantee that this will be resolved in V1, my sincerest apologies.