Spread Editor for complex spread designs and impositioning

[Jochen Damm]

Hi,

I want to discuss a topic that might be helpful for several parties but correlates with the implementation of advanced spread or folding handling. This topic should be an overview and poll how useful or dull this idea is.

InDesign has the opportunity to define spreads with several folds. Affinity Publisher should get this feature at some point. It is the very basic feature that is a standard in print design.

I think Serif wants to gather business-to-business (b2b) clients, not only SMEs, non-profits and individuals. But that is not what they communicate if they resist to implement this feature. We are thankful for data merge but it was only one step. I know that the Affinity team is a small one and has limited capacity. But that are crucial features that decide what software people use: Affinity, open-source or Adobe CC (or CS if they have it still running). 

Years ago I stumbled over a dtp solution called Laidout (www.laidout.org), for Linux only. It is a desktop publishing tool for impositioning folded spreads.

 

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Impositioning

Impose a document as a collection of single pages, custom folded signature based impositions (folded right on screen) such as booklets, and nets derived from polyhedra, possibly based on a dodecahedron, a box, or other polyhedra. Thus, Laidout impositioning is broad enough to allow impositions with pages that don't have to be rectangular, such as a triacontahedron.

Also, you can define one or more paper arrangements for any kind of layout from any of the impositions. Each paper arrangement lets you place the same page, or page spread, or scratch space data across many pieces of paper. This is very useful for postering.

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• Folding signature based impositioning
• Mobius strip impositioning planned
• impositioning involving non-rectangular pages
• Spreading page contents over several pieces of paper, so you can print out a really big layout from your small printer

With this addition you could fold advanced documents with the following fold types:

• gatefold (tabernacle fold)
• right-angle fold
• parallel fold
• letterfold
• (infinite) accordion fold, concertina fold, fan fold

Even in a two-page type document like a catalogue/brochure: e.g. a hinged inner page

But it could going far beyond that. You could separate or join pages. E.g. you had imported PDF files with facing pages as single page and have to divide them into facing pages again. That is a lot of work if you have dozens or hundreds of pages to change. With this editor you could define a break point to break them apart. Or the same vice versa if you want to join multiple pages into one single page. Deleting the break point joins them fast and easy.

On the other hand you can design and impose documents like folded maps, instruction leaflets and manuals.

Import existing Affinity documents and rearrange them into new formats. Content will be flipped and/or rotated according to the fold

At some point it would be nice to create packaging like boxes, cylinders, cones and oder 3 dimensional objects from paper but that would be more-or-less usable to the majority. Extruded marks for cutting and adhesive points.

I want to know what you think about it. Is this a good idea or just a waste of code nobody would ever use? 

[sfriedberg]

I am of mixed opinion, but lean toward "this is useful for people doing commercial work".  The big question is what priority does Serif place on professional, commercial layout?

These days, signature imposition is probably best dealt with by a dedicated app that takes a PDF of single impression pages.  However, there are several cases where the page design is influenced by the spread, and those situations should really be accommodated by Affinity Publisher/Designer.

One recurring example requested here on the forums is book cover design, where a three-panel spread with non-equal panel widths is appropriate.  Less often requested, but closely related, is book dust jacket design, where a five-panel spread, typically with three panel widths, is called for.  Certainly, books are not a novelty item of limited general utility, so this particular case should get some attention.

Packaging (box) design is another common and important commercial activity.  I suspect, though, that this is best handled by getting a developed (flattened) template from the box maker, and using that template as a guide in Affinity Designer, especially as the canvas can be rotated to bring text under development properly oriented on the designer's screen.  I'm not sure that the concept of publishing "spread" really works that well for 3D items like boxes or other polyhedra.

[Jochen Damm]

12 hours ago, sfriedberg said:

I am of mixed opinion, but lean toward "this is useful for people doing commercial work".  The big question is what priority does Serif place on professional, commercial layout?

These days, signature imposition is probably best dealt with by a dedicated app that takes a PDF of single impression pages.  However, there are several cases where the page design is influenced by the spread, and those situations should really be accommodated by Affinity Publisher/Designer.

[...]

Packaging (box) design is another common and important commercial activity.  I suspect, though, that this is best handled by getting a developed (flattened) template from the box maker, and using that template as a guide in Affinity Designer, especially as the canvas can be rotated to bring text under development properly oriented on the designer's screen.  I'm not sure that the concept of publishing "spread" really works that well for 3D items like boxes or other polyhedra.

I guess you're right.

From start I should be more direct with the intended use cases. It is hard for me to get what the Affinity suite wants to be. In my opinion it is a hybrid solution between beginners/novices and professionals and pro-ams.

Therefore I categorize features differently to their usage. I really would like to use this suite as (semi-) professional RIP like ONYX 21 but I know that there are better solutions for professional work flow. But at least I wish I had more options for proofing - that's another topic. 

And on the other hand I had that questioned idea of amateur-like features like "print shop" software that is used by novices for personal purposes only printed at home on consumer printers. In short handicraft works. If you know how to measure your objects it is easy to design it in Designer. But if you want to tinker 3d objects it would be nice to unreel these simple polyhedra. That would also include origami and paper aircrafts. This never will be the main purpose of this software and is highly in question. But it might be useful even in professional cases.

And yeah, the basic concept is to edit layouts with more than two pages per sheet. This might be a 3- or 5-panel spread. But with a little more code it could be way more advanced than that. 32-panel spreads for example. A Leporello with 16 panels and so on. Folding horizontal and vertical at the same time like Map Fold, French/Quarter Fold! That is why I opened this topic. How much should Affinity/Serif do in this case? Only more panels next to each other in the orientation setting? Crossed in right angle or even uneven angles for advanced designs? 

[garrettm30]

2 minutes ago, Jochen Damm said:

It is hard for me to get what the Affinity suite wants to be. In my opinion it is a hybrid solution between beginners/novices and professionals and pro-ams.

My opinion is that because it is still young it is not yet the best choice for many professionals since it still lacks a number of key features, but I think Serif is aiming to get there. Meanwhile, the smaller organisations and amateurs who have already adopted the software provide funding for further development.

But when we say, "professional," that is a fairly broad term. Not that I mean to get into another discussion what the term means, but some fields, for example those where publishing is not the primary focus, may find very good value in what Affinity offers to that profession.

[Jochen Damm]

On 8/24/2021 at 3:43 PM, garrettm30 said:

My opinion is that because it is still young it is not yet the best choice for many professionals since it still lacks a number of key features, but I think Serif is aiming to get there. Meanwhile, the smaller organisations and amateurs who have already adopted the software provide funding for further development.

But when we say, "professional," that is a fairly broad term. Not that I mean to get into another discussion what the term means, but some fields, for example those where publishing is not the primary focus, may find very good value in what Affinity offers to that profession.

I fully agree with you that Affinity is still young and SMEs and amateurs (like myself) have great options with it at this point. But I believe that most new users think of Serif as a newcomer in this game. Affinity was designed from scratch and I appreciate it but the legacy suite also was great. PagePlus would have celebrated its 30 anniversary this/last year. It was released 1990/1991 for commercial use. Serif should know the market's needs. I know that Affinity has a small development team but I don't understand why so many features of that legacy suite were dropped. It disappointed me. Don't get me wrong, I like Affinity quite a lot more than the legacy software. But There are some tasks that I prefer to do in PagePlus instead of Publisher and import it later in it via PDF. "Why is there no native import option?" l asked myself when I switched to Affinity. It didn't make sense to me at that time. To polish a wheel you don't have to reinvent it completely. The materials might change but it has to be round so that it can roll.