Win 10 - Publisher - The Refine Mask Conundrum

[Chris26]

I purposefully avoided this one aspect of  Publisher ever since I started 2 years ago simply because I could never figure out its absurd logic.  The Help files are completely absent of infomation concerning this Refine mask tool.  I have messed around with it time and again and still it makes absolutely no sense at all, and I have 20 years of experience with complex masking techniques.  The number of weird things that happen when I attempt to use this one aspect of publisher defies reasoning.  I remember enquiring 2 years ago that a video tutorial on this really would be a help.  Instead all I encounter is a most simplistic description of the obvious under :"Layer Masking"  and "Masks"  I am not complaining at all,  I suppose the frustration of encountering an alien environment that defies the natural laws of expectation over a well founded DTP concept is what frustrates me the most.  Not to mention the terminolgy used within that dialogue box.  I mean it is about time a more detailed and thoughtful chapter was written in the Help Files or a video tutorial appeared that defines these terms and explains this box.

For example when you apply a mask to below and go to "refine mask", why does everything dissappear from the page?  (Just to note; I often use a below mask effect so I have no problems with this by itself)

When you have something selected and click the symbol at the bottom right "apply mask"  you then paint over a portion with the expected red overlay, get a progress bar and then see nothing?

When you click on Edit mask?  What on earth is that?  The whole page goes white and the Pasteboard also, outside your page and your objcts dissappear?  And what on earth is te difference between Edit mask and Refine mask for crying out loud?

These are just a couple of the many question that I have that I have never been able to solve - and hence have avoided this issue all together.  But now I want to understand it.

 

[carl123]

If you look at your Layers panel you will see your "mask" is still an Ellipse. It is acting as if it is a mask but it's not an actual mask Layer in the true sense of the word. (Mask)

If you first right click your Ellipse and select Rasterise to Mask then use the Mask to Below command it will become an actual mask Layer and will respond to the Refine Mask & Edit Mask commands more like what you would expect those commands to do.

PS I'm guessing all the above but my explanation works for me, in the absence of anything else from Serif

[Chris26]

1 hour ago, carl123 said:

If you first right click your Ellipse and select Rasterise to Mask then use the Mask to Below command it will become an actual mask Layer and will respond to the Refine Mask & Edit Mask commands more like what you would expect those commands to do.

Hi Carl, I have tried many combinations, with and without rasterisation, mask to below and without mask to below. I am only tackling this nonsnse now after 2 years due to the fact none of it makes any sense. I have uploaded a video beginning at the point where I have :Rasterized and Masked to below: And why does it mask the whole page when you clearly have a selection?

[carl123]

I cant see what you are doing

so...

Start with a decent size image

Put a circle shape with a white fill on top of it

Then on the circle Rasterise to Mask then use the Mask to Below command

Then see what Refine does

 

[Chris26]

27 minutes ago, carl123 said:

I cant see what you are doing

Hi Carl, yes sorry, I was trying to keep the Mb load down.  Anyway here is a video, hope it demonstrates why there is a question mark over my head and a box of paracetamol next to my coffee.

 

[carl123]

I don't have video but here's a screenshot showing what happens after I select Refine Mask (using a circular shape)

I can't pause your gif to see what may be happening to you and I'm now going crazy after watching it 50 times!!!

Maybe someone else can see why you are getting different results to me?

 

[Chris26]

8 minutes ago, carl123 said:

I can't pause your gif to see what may be happening to you and I'm now going crazy after watching it 50 times!!!

Sorry about your eyes.....Well that white circle is basically a clipping mask, that I have been doing for ages no problem.  But this darn Refine mask tool kit has me so utterly confused, I mean why does the whole page go red with a mask?  And what you did I can do without using that refine mask tool.  Thankyou for your efforts, they are appreciated.  

[Move Along People]

[carl123]

10 minutes ago, Chris26 said:

I mean why does the whole page go red with a mask?

That Sir, is the question

It doesn't do that for me and all controls in the Refine dialogue allow me to modify the mask as you can normally do when in the Refine screen

And why does your mask turn totally black and everything disappears off your canvas when you hit Apply (last second of video)

There's still a mystery here, that I can't yet figure out

[carl123]

OK, currently working on my Windows 8.1 PC and Refine does what I expect it to do (as shown in my screenshot above)

Just tried it on my Windows 10 PC and it does what yours does, the whole page goes red !!!

This may take a bit of time comparing what's different on these 2 PCs - unless someone in Support can give an answer

[carl123]

21 hours ago, carl123 said:

Just tried it on my Windows 10 PC and it does what yours does, the whole page goes red !!!

 

Now not relevant, I had a (very) old copy of Publisher on that PC and the image I used was too small causing the Matte Edges option in Refine to make all the image go red. Upgraded Publisher and now Refine works the same as my copy on Windows 8.1

[Chris26]

49 minutes ago, carl123 said:

Now not relevant, I had a (very) old copy of Publisher on that PC and the image I used was too small causing the Matte Edges option in Refine to make all the image go red. Upgraded Publisher and now Refine works the same as my copy on Windows 8.1

Well I have been messing with this 'refine mask' box over the last couple of days, playing with all sorts of settings nd manipulations and all I can say is that this whole mask business in Publisher is a complete mystery.  I see things happening that have no rational behind them leaving me completely bewildered and not to even mention that mysterious "edit mask" feature..  Not a single word in the publisher help either, completely annoying really.  A written tutorial or videao demonstration of what the hell the concept is behind this infuriating thing would have been so nice.  As I said, I have been using masks and complex channels for many years, so I am truly at a loss here. But I thank you for your attempts to help, much appreciated.