JoJu

Well, LilleG, let's agree we have different ideas of "excellent DAM". I just downloaded Media Pro Second Edition 2.2.0 or something like that. The best, I guess, is the multi user licence for a network. But otherwise... it still suggests to import iPhoto library. Which disappeared the same year Apple buried Aperture... I guess it's a pretty cool tool to apply keywords and use hierarchies of keywords, but else... it's amazing that an app with such an antique interface (going back to OS 9/Windows NT?) can still exist and people are willing to pay 189 € for a 3 place licence. I think, everybody arranges him- or herself with the stuff available on the local machine, we grow with it. You probably would go mad to see me "managing" my pictures in Aperture, and I would get big eyes and slight panic attacks to see you doing your MediaPro tricks. so, let's just enjoy the stuff we have, occasionally whine around a bit and see what the bright future pulls out of it's magic head...

Are you possibly whining around about all those whinings? Glad to have one more on board... Oh, and don't forget the frog pills for constant happiness.

LilleG, the use of that "whining" speaks for itself and doesn't make you look more intelligent. At least to me, but who am I? Just make a list of DAMs which have map features (GPS-track sync), intelligent folders and face recognition. Then add some advanced EXIF metadata in it (like serial-number of various camera-bodies), or only the possibility to search for unrated pictures. It should also be able to keep the import-window open while I go back to the library and create a new project or album (impossible on C1). A repair strategy on different levels of repairing should be included. The connection to galleries like SmugMug, Flickr or the like with back and forward sync as well. Incremental library backup. Different colors for different types of nodes (album, intelligent albums, projects, books, calendars, slideshows). The nodes I like to be able to duplicate and modify. Slideshows with manual or automatic stretch to a soundtrack, soundtracks to be selected directly in iTunes and of course, burnt as DVD with the correct parameters... It all depends on workflow. I guess with some chance, you're one of the "I know best how to organize and find my files, I don't need a library"-types with tons of folders, subfolders and subsubfolders. Me too - I just let Aperture or Capture One handle them. And if I compare the handling, I have to say, I better stay clear from Phase One software like Media Pro with it's various companies of different developers. There are a lot of great RAW developers out there. State of the art DAM? Less so. Much, much less so. Oh, and btw: Do you know a comparison sheet like "what can you do with Media Pro SE, but can't do with CaptureOne"? Because they just want to get nearly the same price (around 200$), but they don't have a documentation to download, the localisation of CaptureOne has some rough flaws, also no documentation in another language than English. Not helpful for people running C2 in a different language. Not to mention: Basically illegal to sell that app in Europe, due to this lack of docs.

The app is "fab", at least in most parts - and if they change the UI colour to be set lighter, the even better. What Affinity is not doing "fab", not even remotely: Creating an excellent RAW-file manager. I mean, I still use Aperture if not daily, then weekly. ALTHOUGH it's dead end, ALTHOUGH I will not get updates, ALTHOUGH I invested some dosh in Capture One (not Media Pro, though, as I hate their UI), in OnOne, PhotoLine, Lyn, PhotoMechanic (only trial), Photo Supreme, Picktorial, GraphicConverter (because of it's library module), DxO (as trial), Pixelmator and Affinity. So many apps, none as convincing, reliable, easy to use and robust like Aperture - it's a shame to all these apps!

GFS, thank you for agreeing. I had contact with the Aperture developer and maybe I'm wrong but I sensed a lot of frustration that Apple abandoned - without a real reason (they are literally bathing in money...). Possibly I'm only stubborn, but so far I've still some spirit of getting happy about awesomeness - if I can recognize it.

Windows doesn't include RAW-processing, therefore Affinity programmers must take care of another task. A lot of Windows versions don't include color management - I'm not sure, if Affinity needs the newest (CM-supporting) version Win 10? Some capabilities have to be dedicated to the whole mess of drivers, especially for graphic cards. I agree that more users mean more incoming sales and therefore more human resources - but these are needed because Windows users need to address more support. Within Mac OS, there are intelligent folders usable for all apps, Automator scripts and a lot more comfort functions, Developing these for Windows... I see the results in Adobe Bridge, in CaptureOne (I'm working with Windows on a daily basis) - these poor copies of OS X functions and their usage just suck. Affinity will need some manpower to bring Affinity Photo in Windows to the same level as the ease of use in OS X - this kind of manpower is missing for a development of a "Aperture successor". I tried a lot of photo-organizing apps. Aperture, two years after death, still sets a benchmark. I was hoping very much Affinity could create something cool, instead they took the money road.

A simple trick, which increases the consumption of diskspace. There are things only Photoshop or the like can do, then there's a reason to go the TIF road. I want to stay in RAW files for as long as possible.

st87, it wasn't Aperture getting a hiccup after I went from 10.10 to 10.12, it was Mail. One intelligent folder was not working. A call at Apple support set things straight (and I was for the first time in years amazed again by this kind of support...) I can understand your points and hesitation. I wish I could go back to iTunes 8or 9 i.e. On Affinity, I gave up hope since they went Windows. That's exactly the same path Adobe chose. Getting Windows user on board alters the feature list and weakens the whole system - it has been ages since the last real update happened. And now the tablet version as well - somebody called that a dead end, I join that opinion.

Aperture still works fine with OS X 10.12.6, only for your information. No broken functions - at least all what I need works. Can't speak about creating books, slideshows. It kept even my coloured icons (I hated the grey ones to the point of nearly abandoning the best DAM I've experienced so far). Capture One, on the contrary got better again in the development part, but with the management part I experienced weird behavior (like lost pictures). That was very annoying because C1 10.1 was the reason to update OS X, and to update C1 the reason was the compressed X-T2 RAW files. As much as I hate that kind of "want something simple, need to do two costly or not working other updates" cases, I only got a small scratch. Sure, if I would remain with Nikon D810 and Fuji X-E2, everything would work with Aperture. But the X-T2 was just too attractive to not try it. And we're still waiting for a proper Affinity DAM.

Today I'm using 3...4 different RAW developers - but as a DAM, only Aperture does what I want and need. And I appreciate the libraries which are holding the files together and not an "open file system, because only I know how files should be named and organised" - that's what i read a lot of Media Pro/C1 and LR users. I simply don't care... My preferences are different and I don't find my pictures by 15 digit filenames... In the best of my illusions there would be one DAM with a very good RAW converter, able to deal with Sigma Foveon files, Fuji compressed RAW of X-T2 and possibly also Fuji GFX files which will be not supported by Capture One. For Sigma, there's a Mac version of their "PhotoPro" (cr)app, which runs less than half speed on a Mac due to only 32 bit contrary to Windows 64 bit version. I don't want to be limited by software in using the cameras I like to use for various reasons. I skip Capture One 10 because those lazy folks are not able to perform Fuji compressed RAW support for nearly one year and bring lame excuses. Fuji lens support? :lol: But their HDR department as well as perspective correction are the reasons I use it for Nikon, Canon and Fuji files. I dream of non-destructive editing of RAWs, be it focus-stacking or panorama. I also dream of the elegance of the file handling like faces and places and the still state of the art intelligent albums - some things which capture One programmers obviously fail to understand. Okay, since last version 10 one can already search for landscape/portrait orientation, whooppee <_< Dunno for how many years that's standard in Aperture... I don't want to be in the situation a manufacturer of rented software can blackmail me - pay, otherwise you can't edit your files anymore,stupid client - or forces me to upgrade not only the versions but at some point as well the hardware or OS. Had that already experienced with Aperture, when the latest version was not running on Snowleopard or the CameraRAWUpdates just stayed away. I tried standalone media-browsers, it's just another app and still falls short. Media Pro? Totally overpriced in regard of the painful to look at UI. I was hoping, Serif would overtake Aperture as it is and give it a good brush-up. But now, like on other places, promises, promises... :mellow:

10.10.5 "doesn't show up" needs to be corrected - in my case it went like this: I opened Affinity Photo in normal view mode, clicked help. Then I went to fullscreen mode. Help disappeared. Couldn't restart it, before I went off fullscreen. Help window was still there. Closed it. Fullscreen again. Help click, Help appears on top. A tiny bit weird, but once I know... And I've seen that behavior in other apps, too, so it's probably Mac OS?

I just took a screenshot, hope you know what it means

Sorry, a couple of things: "Help" doesn't show up Trying the rotation feature - nothing, could not get it to work :( will try again i a later version.

Hello dear Photo users, after searching on the Affinity Photo Help (and discovering some other issues) and not quickly finding anything to it: Sometimes Affinity Photo appears to become slower, much slower than expected. Long time waiting for a simple "move" transformation of two layers, i.e., I'm suspecting the settings I chose are inadequate. Quitting and restarting the app usually helps - but is slowing down the work and not a good idea for the turnaround from Aperture to Photo and back. So, what slows down Photo? How should I set up those settings for OS 10.10.5, 27" iMac 2.8 GHz i5 (mid 2010) and 12 GB RAM, Graphics ATI Radeon HD 5750 1024 MB? Is there a simple way to empty the protocol? I guess, 1024 steps undo was a bit too much on my old but otherwise sufficient Mac. I use Aperture, C1, Sigma PhotoPro; at times two of them parallel to Photo and there are still 3-4 GB free RAM

Pete, I had a look into apHUB. But it's relying on a working Aperture and since Apple decided to bury it, I don't see much of a future for Aperture based tools. My (and some others) concern is not to choose an RAW converter and manage files in Aperture - at some day all those structures and organizations and libraries of Aperture will become an infamous example of Apple's ignorance. But that doesn't help and they are still swallowing money and increasing their cash flow. What I want is a DAM very close to Aperture's functions, with basic edit functions like Aperture (be it included or as AP workflow) and a non-destructive workflow. I like the way Aperture is organizing libraries and don't want to make my own structures of folders. In another thread a member pointed out Lyn as a fast media browser. It's not what I had in mind, but it's the easiest way to browse existing Aperture Libraries. And I had no idea of it's existence :unsure: But now I do and will buy it as well just to keep them going. I support nearly every attempt of making Aperture users happy again. ^_^

Thanks for repeating it, just downloading the trial. :) I'm careful with one-man-developer-companies, one never knows if they don't stop the next day, but this one is working on it since 2010 and the screenshots were promising. Funny, never read/heard about it all those years. And I'm researching a "close to Aperture"-Aperture-substitute for quite a while. LR and mediaPro are no way to go for me, media Pro is too expensive and LR too Adobe :rolleyes: Only thing I'd miss would be "faces", less a tagging tool to me but always a surprise to meet/find known faces in crowds.

Drugs? :blink: :D If darktable is already a beast, keep on using it. Pity, it's only RAW converter. That¨s whats in Affinity Photo already. I think one darktable is enough. And a beast that's "mostly works" sounds extremely attractive. Mostly. ;)

I fully agree, first things first. I host around 10 libs, the main one with 30.000 pictures. Certainly I don't think I would miss more than a couple hundred which I find really okay. So in a way, if I'd not be too lazy I could just delete 90%, but which to keep?

I don't want to climb into the old discussion about closed libraries vs. open folder structures. And as you already pointed out, JasperD, who are we to make Affinity staff work? For the people with the hang to their own holy folder structures, I understand the "advantage" of having a transparent structure and also the anxiety against a black box. I think, I made myself clear I don't want to get the Aperture functions into Affinity photo as it wouldn't improve speed. However, I don't feel Aperture the way of a black box - it takes care about all structures and helps me finding my pictures better than on the LAN drives in the office I'm working in. And there we use Bridge, which is absolutely horrible and diskspace consuming. Folder structures have the advantage of being stable and reliable. And the disadvantage there's nothing as inflexible to organize pictures in. So, for the folder structure guys there's an easy way not to bother with a database structured DAM: Just don't buy it. Aperture took me a while to get used to after I bought it 5 years ago. I had to learn about what is what and what to do with it. There are lots of things which could be improved in Aperture - or, which could be done better with another start from scratch. I don't want necessarily a closed library, but I want a performing database, a fast browser and face detection. Keywords could be done better although I doubt I would love to sit hours for tagging pictures with keywords. I think there are better ways to categorize. Affinity Photo already has a RAW converter which worked pretty well at some RAWs I tried. I'd find it pretty cool having a browser in which I can make easy edits in each organisation I'm in, be it "All photos", a project, an album, a smart album, a slide-show without starting an external module. And if I need more, I hand it over to Affinity photo. Also, I prefer non-destructive changes of my pictures. Affinity already separated Photo into 4 modules - normal editor, liquify, converter and exporter. There's also a media browser - most of Aperture is already there, most of the modules will become improved. I thought I like Aperture because it's one app for everything I normally do with my pictures. But I really like it because there are no seams between the different working regions. Like billtils I do have huge libraries and I don't want to reorganize all of 'em. I'm not married to Aperture, it's just my best (known) way to organize my stuff. If I can transfer those structures to something else with no hassle and if this "something else" is as easy to use (meaning, no long days in front of YouTube tutorials), I'm in.

I don't want APh becoming Aperture - it's already fine the way it is. I just wanted to check the possibility wether Affinity Serif could make - why not - a "better Aperture". Some like the library - I'm pretty happy with it because I don't need to create one. Others hate them, alright, my request was not for those hating libraries ;)

mystrawberrymonkey already pointed out another way to just edit a RAW file directly out of Aperture without any need of exporting and importing. You can set up the output file to TIF (16 or 8 bits) or to PSD (16 or 8 bits). When you're done with your thing, just press Save and close the picture in APh (btw. I like this APh, otherwise it's confusing Affinity Photo with Photos.app from Apple). What happens? Aperture is copying your adjusted RAW and exports a file to Affinity. After saving it in Affinity, Aperture reimports the edited file (unfortunately using the same file title). And as you imagine, the file size is huge. A 16 bit 36 MP in TIF goes up to app. 200 MB. The same goes for using the plugins in Aperture, which are the Nik collection (but the standalone versions, so it's not really plugins). Altogether the handling of Aperture is great, but I'd prefer non destructive editors or plugins. I don't know, if there are any?

I don't think anything like Aperture can be easily ported to Windows. The RAW camera update brings even after Aperture's dead the ability to handle RAW files to each app on a Mac - nothing like that on Windows side. Also, using smart folders: copied by Adobe (in Lightroom and a crappy little bit in Bridge) and a bit by Phase One, too, but it leaves me sobbering in grief what a mess they created. I am also a (workday) windows user, but asking some Windows Lightroom users if they use smart folders always leads to another question: "And for what should I do so? I thought very deep about my folder structures and I find each photo within a minute! Okay, within an hour! But no longer than a day, I promise..." :blink: Those kind of management concepts haven't arrived on Windows, users are taught to think in folders. Even if it's only one file in it... To me, the asset management is nothing I want to do to get more work. It's something, what helps me finding my files. Also the ones I haven't had in mind when I tagged them. Apple don't needs to sell Aperture and allow Affinity to use the name. The code would be enough and a new name with some long awaited improvements. Some of them I already see in Affinity, so I wonder if there's a need to start from scratch (because Aperture IS an old app) or to use an already existing project. I don't think I'm the only one missing Aperture. And Apple was awarding Affinity, remember? So, if anybody has a possible access to Aperture's code... @Coranda: you said "If they let someone else have Aperture and they turned it into a success, causing the press to criticise Apple for abandoning it, (or even worse, develop it for Windows) then I don't think Apple management would be happy." Actually I don't know if any people of Apple's management used Aperture regularly and I don't think, they care much about another bad headline. Did the one about workers suicide cost a lot sales? ;)

Of course I wasn't expecting to get the "Affinity Catalog" or whatever the kid's name would be, by next month as beta. Thanks for the fast answer, i keep my fingers crossed and I think it would be awesome. B)

I did a couple of searches before posting this topic. If I missed the already given answer, I'd appreciate a link to that topic. I'm still using Aperture and whenever I tried other RAW converters (except Lightroom, but I still like to keep my private Mac Adobe-free), I always missed a well thought workflow like the one i'm used to have in Aperture. But since Apple abandoned it and the new photos.app is close to useless for my intentions, I am looking into all other possible solutions. Like PhotoMechanic or PhotoSupreme, but I would prefer, how to say, just a better Aperture. All included: Development, Management, keywords, faces, places, plus lens correction and a real fine Editor like AP is. Now I'm just wondering: Have you guys any plans to create a DAM in Affinity style? Speaking for me, I'm willing to pay as much as I used to pay for Aperture on dvd or PhaseOne, I'm just not willing to get another "only RAW converting" piece of software. And you guys did a really awesome job in such a short time of development! Keeps me thinking, if anybody gets it done, it's Affinity Serif.

I'm also looking to a faster RAW converter for my DP1, 2, 3 Merrill. Although they are on the list and although they open quite fast (compared to Sigma's Photo Pro a lot apps are fast...), I see a color drift to green on both sides of the picture - awful. Anybody with an idea of how to correct that? All Merrill cameras do show this effect in AP.