barryg01 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 We are trying to publish a book using bleed on KDP. When we export to PDF print ready with the "include bleed" box checked, they keep rejecting the file. When I check the page size in Preview the dimensions include the bleed dimension. When KDP checks the page size they come back that it is too big. How can we create a file they can use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacerto Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Can you provide some additional information, or an actual sample of your publication? I remember to have read on this forum of similar issues, and I think that there can be multiple causes for these kinds of errors. The preflight checkers at least for inner pages might e.g. calculate or give warnings about page sizes based on objects placed "too close" to recommended margins (white space). There might also be problems related to accuracy of page boxes created by Affinity apps compared to other layout apps, and absence of page boxes (e.g. bleed box) in certain cases (e.g., Affinity apps do not provide this information unless visible bleed crop marks [or other print marks] are output, even if the document itself has bleeds). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 @barryg01, there are a few threads in this forum which solved their KPD rejection issues by ensuring that no layer / object / bounding box exceeds the bleed area. One user mentioned the size / position of a text frame for page numbers on a master page causing the issues. As @Lacerto mentions, you might need to be more specific / less ambiguous ("too big") with the KPD error message and its full details. 35 minutes ago, lacerto said: absence of page boxes (e.g. bleed box) in certain cases (e.g., Affinity apps do not provide this information unless visible bleed marks are output, even if the document itself has bleeds) What are "bleed marks"? Do you mean crop marks? Is it a V2 issue? I can't reproduce a PDF in APub V1 resulting in a missing bleed box when bleed is activated for export. (and the known bug with bleed in AD 1 and 2 was reported by @Serifbot as being fixed in Nov 2023 for V2.) V1 w bleed.pdf Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacerto Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, thomaso said: What are "bleed marks"? Do you mean crop marks? Yes, sorry, meant crop marks. Bleed marks indicate the bleed area and can be used in InDesign (and probably in QXP), but not in Affinity apps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacerto Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 38 minutes ago, thomaso said: I can't reproduce a PDF in APub V1 resulting in a missing bleed box when bleed is activated for export. It is missing at least when producing with v2 on Windows, if you do not include any visible print marks (e.g. crop marks). Below a screenshot and PDF with 3mm bleeds on all four sides, but without visible print marks: It InDesign and QXP (at least, probably also Corel, Xara, etc. EDIT: Just checked, and both do) do produce bleed box whenever bleed has been defined, no matter if there are print marks included. I think that the same omission applies to 1.x versions of Affinity apps, but it could of course be some macOS vs. Windows difference... bleedboxmissing_v02.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacerto Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 This is your PDF in Adobe Acrobat Pro: ...so no explicit bleed box, but just calculational box that some apps (including Adobe Acrobat Pro in its page box UI) display. But preflight apps might try to fetch this as a physical attribute and fail the job if it is missing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 49 minutes ago, lacerto said: Bleed marks indicate the bleed area and can be used in InDesign (and probably in QXP), but not in Affinity apps. Thanks for clarifying. I forgot about the ID option … which I always found rather confusing by its double marks. – To me the Affinity way to place the crop marks outside the bleed area appears more useful / more clear, their position indicates the bleed area. 36 minutes ago, lacerto said: I think that the same omission applies to 1.x versions 33 minutes ago, lacerto said: no explicit bleed box, but just calculational box Ah, I never noticed this missing entry since APub offers a "bleed box" display selection for such a placed PDF and Acrobat displays the bleed area + a TrimBox (indicating existing bleed by different dimensions). And, yes, it appears the same way in macOS for V1 exports: the BleedBox info requires to export crop marks, too: - Also interesting that in particular KPD with its quite strict rejection rules does not complain about the missing bleed box. (otherwise none of the reported issues in this forum would have been solved) Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacerto Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 16 minutes ago, thomaso said: which I always found rather confusing by its double marks. I am not sure I understand what you mean. Crop marks show where the page is trimmed, and bleed marks show where the bleed ends. If "double marks" bother, simply just turn off bleed marks. ID has minimal marks and their distance can also be defined. Bleed marks can be useful e.g. in cover production and possibly also in package design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, lacerto said: Bleed marks can be useful e.g. in cover production and possibly also in package design. I can imagine the need for cut/crop marks and fold marks (cover) and for cutting contours/dielines (packaging) but not for bleed marks. Can you give a more detailed example where bleed marks are helpful while a BleedBox wouldn't give the required info? Questions for a use of bleed marks were asked in the web various times but apparently without a literal answer. David Blatner responded "I don’t think anyone really needs them (…)". While ePac, a global packaging producer mentions in an article about bleed in packaging and in a prepress checklist the use of a black rectangle printed as "Eye Mark" for the automatic cutting process … but no bleed marks. Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacerto Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 One could e.g. use bleed marks to separate the slug area where technical notes are written: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacerto Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 hours ago, thomaso said: David Blatner responded "I don’t think anyone really needs them (…)". We have prepared some pretty weird things along the decades we have been in this business, with a genuine need to make clear (both for printers and other people involved) what needs to be done, so what Mr. Blatner can imagine and what not is not a concern of mine 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 43 minutes ago, lacerto said: One could e.g. use bleed marks to separate the slug area where technical notes are written: Wouldn't this placement of custom text in the slug area be possible without bleed marks? Especially if these texts get placed in the layout before crop marks are visible (unless they were created as custom elements on the layout page like fold marks or crop outlines)? In my understanding crop marks & trimbox indicate the relevant layout content and dimensions. Is there a situation where it is important or helpful to see whether the bleed area has a width of 3 or 30 or 300mm, while a layout content in that area would show the outer edge of the bleed area anyway? 18 minutes ago, lacerto said: with a genuine need to make clear (both for printers and other people involved) what needs to be done, so what Mr. Blatner can imagine and what not is not a concern of mine 🙂 Please don't misunderstand me, I do not have doubts about your experience, knowledge and skills – that is why I am interested in your argument for bleed marks. Maybe they aren't literally required like crop marks but rather "just" an additional hint that bleed was set in a layout at all (e.g. for printed sheets that show empty bleed and thus their crop marks alone don't make obvious if bleed was set)? Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacerto Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 10 minutes ago, thomaso said: Wouldn't this placement of custom text in the slug area be possible without bleed marks? Of course, similarly as trimming is possible without crop marks! Separating marks are useful especially if ink is not printed globally / coherently on edges to clearly delineate the actual print job. 13 minutes ago, thomaso said: Please don't misunderstand me No worries. I just wanted to be a bit sarcastic towards David 🙂 thomaso 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryg01 Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 Thanks for your replies. I'm 81 and do not understand. I do not see a way to use crop marks in Publisher. I do not see a solution in them that I could use. If someone has fixed the problem on the forum how do I find them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacerto Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 hours ago, barryg01 said: If someone has fixed the problem on the forum how do I find them? In the Search box on the top right of this page, enter your search key word, e.g. KDP Bleed, and you'll get a URL showing results: e.g. https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/search/&q=KDP Bleed&quick=1 To be able to resolve the issue, it may be necessary to have a closer look on the file itself (considering that there can be multiple reasons that can cause this error). If you cannot post your file publicly, you can send it to private address so that Serif personnel can have a look on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaso Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 hours ago, barryg01 said: I do not see a way to use crop marks in Publisher. I do not see a solution in them that I could use. If someone has fixed the problem on the forum how do I find them? Sorry for the discussion about bleed box & bleed marks in your thread. – If you can post a screenshot of the KPD error messages it would help to narrow down the issue. Your initial info "too big" can have different meanings and various reasons. Here two thread examples that solved their KPD page size issue: lacerto 1 Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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