When adding a new pixel layer to the stack the behavior is not as expected.

[Robert Hansford]

Hi all! Hope everyone is doing well and feeling good. I'm really enjoying all the new additions to the Beta builds. Thank you for everything you guys are doing.

Before posting this here, I searched in both the bug reporting forum and this one. I couldn't find it posted. It isn't a critical issue, and is not related to new features, so I'm leaving it here.

Feedback:

Whenever a vector layer is present in the layer stack, adding a new pixel layer places it as a child layer of the vector layer even if the vector layer is not selected. I keep thinking that I'm not deselecting the vector layer, and that this might be the problem. However, I've tested it several times and it seems that no matter what I do, when I add a pixel layer expecting it to be placed at the top of the stack, it keeps getting added to the vector layer

When I add new pixel layers they are usually unrelated to whatever is going on within a vector layer. When I use vector layers they're mostly intended to isolate a group of curves from the rest of whatever else is going on in the stack. Occasionally, I want to add notes or an overdrawing to a project so I often opt to add pixel layers in advance as opposed to letting the assistant do it as I begin to draw.  It gets a bit irksome after a while, as I repeatedly have to fetch the new layers and bring them out of the vector layer in order to keep the project organized and orderly. I don't really like this behavior, as it's a bit unexpected. Is this by design, or is it a bug? I can't be sure. It's just something that keeps coming up for me. I don't remember this being the case in V1.

This is happening in both 2.0 and 2.1 Beta builds.

Important Note: This behavior does not happen if there are pixel layers resting above the vector layer. If a pixel layer or other item such as an adjustment or filter layer exists, the pixel layer will usually be added as expected barring any user error on my part.

Keep working hard guys. Take care.

 

 

[walt.farrell]

Designer V1 acts the same way, but it's a little easier to see what's going on, as it seems to show three states for a Vector Layer (aka Layer, with capital L).

It's easiest to see (in V1) with two Vector Layers in the stack: 

1. Layer1 selected: 

2. Layer2 selected:  

 

3. Third state: 

To get to the third state, you can tap somewhere in the workplace, or on the "x" deselect icon on the lower. Left.

Note that in #3 we can see that Layer2 is slightly more highlighted than Layer1, and is in some sense still active. If I create a Pixel Layer (or a Shape, or Curve) while in this state, it will become part of Layer2. If Layer1 had been the last active Layer when tapping Deselect, it would be slightly more highlighted and would become the parent for new objects.

In contrast, here's V2, in the third state, with Layer1 in this somewhat active state: 

In V1, if you have something else (not a Layer, but some other object or a Pixel Layer)  in the layer stack, not as a child of any Layer, you can select it, then Deselect, and all the Layers are truly inactive. Thus, in V1 I can have this, where the Rectangle is Selected and neither Layer has any kind of highlight:

I can then Deslect the Rectangle, and get this, where nothing is highlighted: 

And in that state, if I add a new object it is not part of either Layer.

However, I can also have this state in V1, where the Rectangle is Selected, but Layer1 (which the Rectangle is not a child of) is in the semi-selected state (like 3 above):

If the document is in this state, adding a new object will put it into Layer1.

I don't know what to call this state. Layer1 isn't really Selected, but it is active in some sense, and will become the parent for new objects (or Pixel Layers).

Unfortunately, in V2, we've lost the highlighting for this state, but it can still occur, and it's what you're seeing, Robert.

Also, in V2, once I have a non-Layer object in the stack, outside all the Layer layers, I have not been able to get the document back into state 3. So adding an object outside all the Layers seems to make state 3 impossible to enter (at least while those objects still exist).

 

[Robert Hansford]

8 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

To get to the third state, you can tap somewhere in the workplace, or on the "x" deselect icon on the lower. Left." ...

Walt, if you watch the clip again look to the lower left. I lay into the deselect button over and over again and it still will not get it to the state you are describing. I never had this problem in V1. I'm aware of the procedure, and was always able to deselect the layer and add a new layer or object without it becoming a child to any possible parent. It was very comfortable.

8 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

I don't know what to call this state. Layer1 isn't really Selected, but it is active in some sense, and will become the parent for new objects (or Pixel Layers).

Unfortunately, in V2, we've lost the highlighting for this state, but it can still occur, and it's what you're seeing, Robert.

Also, in V2, once I have a non-Layer object in the stack, outside all the Layer layers, I have not been able to get the document back into state 3. So adding an object outside all the Layers seems to make state 3 impossible to enter (at least while those objects still exist).

 

- That being said, wouldn't this mean that the behavior in V2 is undesirable and disruptive?

[Robert Hansford]

8 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

In V1, if you have something else (not a Layer, but some other object or a Pixel Layer)  in the layer stack, not as a child of any Layer, you can select it, then Deselect, and all the Layers are truly inactive. Thus, in V1 I can have this, where the Rectangle is Selected and neither Layer has any kind of highlight:

Also, I'm confused - Isn't a Pixel layer a Layer? - I realize that Vector layers have different characteristics, but are they not both parents in their own way? - Each are containers for a particular type of data. Are you saying that this problem is the result of some kind of object identity crisis within the app? - The way these object properties have been coded? or is it simply the result of how they behave with one another?

[Robert Hansford]

@walt.farrell looks like this got moved from suggestions to bug reporting! - Maybe it is an issue after all. - Cheers Walt, thanks always for the insights!

[walt.farrell]

10 hours ago, Robert Hansford said:

if you watch the clip again look to the lower left. I lay into the deselect button over and over again and it still will not get it to the state you are describing.

As I said, you have to have an object or Pixel layer outside the Layer layer(s), and Deselect that, in order to get out of the 3rd state. As far as I can see, you are trying to Deselect the Layer layer itself. That doesn't work. That just leaves you in state 3, in both V1 and V2. And you can't see state 3 in V2.

10 hours ago, Robert Hansford said:

That being said, wouldn't this mean that the behavior in V2 is undesirable and disruptive?

Yes, having two states like this (state 2, state 3) that can't be differentiated from the UI is confusing. If V2 is still implementing state 3, then it should be visibly distinct from state 2.

10 hours ago, Robert Hansford said:

Also, I'm confused - Isn't a Pixel layer a Layer?

No, it is just a layer (small l). A Layer (called a Vector Layer on the iPad, or just a Layer on desktop, with capital L) is different. 

Everything in Affinity is a layer (small l). 

4 hours ago, Robert Hansford said:

looks like this got moved from suggestions to bug reporting! - Maybe it is an issue after all. - Cheers Walt, thanks always for the insights!

Well, if only for the difficulty of distinguishing state 2 from state 3, it should be an issue, so maybe a Moderator moved it for that reason.

Or perhaps state 3 was not supposed to have been removed in V2, and something was missed. I guess we'll find out