nickdaum Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Hi all Sorry if the question is trivial and/or has already been asked many times. I didn't find a discussion about it. When doing panoramas for example you often end up with transparent gaps usually at the corners or at the top. I often feel sorry I have to crop too tightly to get rid of them. How to impaint those gaps? Most often the pattern to be filled in is rather simple: pavement, grass, sky, etc. I didn't find the tool for it. TIA Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmac Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I think the tutorial on panoramas covers a couple ways to handle those transparent areas you describe. It's in section 8 of the tutorials for Affinity Photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barninga Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 as a quick tip, you can click on the inpainting button, over the top of the panorama, before rendering it. transparent surrounding areas will be inpainted. note, however, that the inpainting step usually takes lots of time and cpu. Quote take care, stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdaum Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 OK, thanks. As far as I understand the Impaint Missing Areas tool exists in the panorama environment only. I have panoramas I already did with Hugin which I am used to. Is the tool accessible elsewhere? Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barninga Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 in the photo persona an inpainting brush is available, along with sseveral other tools you can use to patch and correct flaws in your images. you can try loading a hugin panorama and inpaint an external area completely, and see what happens. in th photo persona, the inpainting tool does not operate an automatic selection. Quote take care, stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdaum Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 I got results on very small areas and not all the times. Often the area isn't changed at all and remains transparent. At best there a little bit of a blurred painting. In the video the Impaint Missing Areas does marvel on large areas (at least in the video). Is it possible to open an already done panorama in the Panorama Persona and therefore be able to use the tool? I couldn't. I tried doing this specific panorama of a building seen from the side with a strong perspective effect and the result is not good at all. The issue is that there is no option for the type of projection. It seems to be cylindrical or equirectangular which doesn't work for that type of scene.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barninga Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 the inpaint brush usually does an excellent job removig even large objects in the middle of images, i never used it on transparent peripheric areas, so i don't know. i think that you could open a previously composed panorama in the panorama persona after splitting it in two overlapping images. there is not way to change the type of projection in the panorama persona, at present. Quote take care, stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdaum Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 i think that you could open a previously composed panorama in the panorama persona after splitting it in two overlapping images. Well, err…, that's what I am trying to do right from the start. It's one of the stuff I tried first with AP. I have plenty of panoramas done with either Hugin or Photoshop and that I had to crop a little too tightly to my taste. I would like to retrieve some additional width. I have also normal pics that were shot too tightly, most often at the top. If I could add some sky it would be nice. Unless I missed something, in the Panorama Persona one must open at least 2 pics and then stitch them before one can view anything. It seems there is no way one can open an already done panorama. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barninga Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 yes it is that way. in fact, i was suggesting to split a previously stitched panorama image. you can easily do it in ap cropping two times the same image (crop, export, undo, crop, export) so that you obatin 2 new images that partially overlap. these should be recognized by ap as a panorama and stitched together; you will then be brought to the panorama persona. just a side note, i think that the automatic inpainting works on transparent areas: if the panoramas you already have have their peripheric empty areas filled with some color, you'll have to substitute it with transparency. Quote take care, stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdaum Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 I didn't have time to test the procedure. In my tests, whether it is because of the transparency or not, filling in empty corners worked only if these ones were small. For bigger ones the result was not satisfying at all if it worked at all.Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmac Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I have not worked with panoramas but is it not possible to open a panorama you have already stitched in pixel persona and use the inpainting brush there as you would any other image? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barninga Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 yes it is, but the inpainting tool available for panoramas works automatically. Quote take care, stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdaum Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 I just tried the procedure you mentioned. The creation of the panorama itself worked well, i.e. it reproduced the same thing as the original one. OK. Yet the filling in did fill something in: rubbish. I guess it works with random patterns like grass or foliage but in my case, with structured objects it just somehow mirrored the adjacent part of the image and didn't try to make things aligned. It's absolutely not seamless. Another question: when you click on the Apply button you necessarily quit the Panorama Persona and you can't get back to it, right? So if there was a mistake you can't correct it anymore. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmac Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 One of the devs can probably respond to this better than I but if you are using the inpainting brush on something like buildings I think you are expecting something from the tool it is not capable of doing. I don't think the tool is designed to replicate something with complex straight lines and angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdaum Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 One of the debs can probably respond to this better than I but if you are using the inpainting brush on something like buildings I think you are expecting something from the tool it is not capable of doing. I don't think the tool is designed to replicate something with complex straight lines and angles. Well, then I would like to see that mentioned in the specs. Yet when removing lines or posts in front of a building it can do a quite decent job but it needs quite an expertise to get a good result. With this in mind I create a Feature Request: Impainting tool improvement suggestions.. You could support it if you think the tool might be improved. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barninga Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 @nickdaum: yes, when you apply the panorama you can't get back. imho the actual panorama implementation does a very good job and has features (i.e. you can manually modify the boundaries of overlapping areas to correct alignment errors) and yet lacks of some pro features (like the eility to choose the type of projection. however, if i don't fail, it was introduced with the current 1.4 version, so i expect it to grow in future releases. by the way, i used quite a few panorama tools, free and not free, and i don't remember one implementing a "back" button: some force starting from scratch (like ap does currently), some avoid repeating the detection phase, but the heavy optimizing jobs are done in the panorama editing phase, so i expect that ap will grow in this area. @nickdaum, @jmac: i have been left speechless more than one time by the job done by the inpainting tool (in the photo persona, i mean). for example, yesterday i used it to remove a road sign that partially covered the corner of a building, and it did an excellent job, recreating the corner in near-perfection (i still can't believe it). sometimes it acts weird and/or creates trivial artifacts, but i have to say that, in most cases, undoing and repeating the inpainting job with a slightly different selected area worked like a charm. it can do a very good job in eliminating its own artifacts, if used to inpaint them with a bit of "fantasy" in subsequent selections. as to concerns the panorama automatic inpainting, i did not use it extensively yet, but i think it has to deal with a harder job, since there no way to help it with human choices. i appreciated it with empty areas to fill with sky, and even with some building details, but not with extremely complex patterns or textures yet. Quote take care, stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmac Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 barninga, I didn't mean to imply a deficiency in the inpainting tool. Like you I have been amazed at what is possible considering the task being performed. I just meant that there are certain kinds of things that can't be replaced with just that tool. And a lot has to do with the surrounding area as well as the portion being replaced. When you see what it can do in one circumstance it's easy to expect that level of "magic" all the time and that is probably not a realistic expectation. barninga 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barninga Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 jmac, i did not mean you meant a deficiency :) :) you are right, no tool can magically handle any task. there are situations where the inpainting tool performs greatly, other situations where it needs help and/or refinements, and some where a different strategy is definitely better. Quote take care, stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdaum Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 @barninga The panorama is not an issue for me. Hugin, which is a free app, is the reference in that trade and its engine is used in some commercial apps too. You can change the settings on your panorama as long as you want, close the so-called project and reopen it later to work on it. I agree AP's impainting tool does a great job and it was actually one of the reasons why I purchased the app. Yet I think it could be improved, especially in terms of speed and precision of execution. Check the thread I created and tell me what you think. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barninga Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 well it would be fantastic to have specialized inpainting tools, and that smart. i've seen some specialized image-healing programs that aren't that smart... we'll see what the priorities of ap's roadmap are... anyway i am already satisfied of the value that ap is giving me back for its price :) Quote take care, stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdaum Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 I agree, AP has a great value. However I didn't use all its features so far. I tried SnapHeal from the AppStore and it's a joke. Erasing wires from a plain blue sky leaves ugly traces. I develop my RAWs with DxO OpticsPro which has a dust tool. It's OK for small dust spots but it's awfully slow, needs to recalculate the job each time and with stuff like wires does the same as SnapHeal. This dust tool is just useless. But it's not DOP's core business. What do you think of my suggestions? Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barninga Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 as i wrote in my last post, your suggestion are very cool and, if implemented, they would make the inpainting tool a very smart and powerful one. or, better, it would be a set of specialized tools. i find particularly interesting what you wrote about combining shots from different perspectives to rebuild what it's hidden from the intended point of view, that would be -i think- a killer and it would be the only way to get rid of obstacles without faking what's actually behind. i'd be happy to pay for a plugin or an application like that. i am going to support it in the feature request forum. Quote take care, stefano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdaum Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 as i wrote in my last post, your suggestion are very cool and, if implemented, they would make the inpainting tool a very smart and powerful one. or, better, it would be a set of specialized tools. i find particularly interesting what you wrote about combining shots from different perspectives to rebuild what it's hidden from the intended point of view, that would be -i think- a killer and it would be the only way to get rid of obstacles without faking what's actually behind. i'd be happy to pay for a plugin or an application like that. i am going to support it in the feature request forum. Thanks. I'll reply there to your comments. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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