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Because I had not been certain when to use a layer or artboard or group. I have since learned better via a recent post. I admit I did not use the software in an expected manner. I don't pressure further work on this.

I test again in v2.6.2.3228. I begin to doubt my sanity. I am too tired to try to describe behavior. More videos: 3228 odd behavior even more.mov3228 odd behavior more.mov I've reattached the files, since saving them in A.D. Beta v2.6.2.3228: Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 1.afdesign Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 2B.afdesign Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 3.afdesign

I just downloaded and tested the files: (from original report) Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 1.afdesign (from follow-up report) Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 2B.afdesign (from follow-up report) Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 3.afdesign In A.D. Beta v2.6.2.3187: original report is fixed ✅ follow-up report exists ❌ In A.D. Beta v2.6.2.3228: the behavior is different 🤔, but still seems wrong ⚠️ After download, I open Doc 2b and re-link doc 1 and doc; ✅ no problem: use linked documents.mov Different layer hide and show than what I choose; wrong ❌ or confusing ⚠️: hide show layers.mov Are there other questions I can answer? Should I re-upload the files? I've saved them with v2.6.2.3228 since opening them in it.

Yup. Links to my files are in follow-up report comment at "Resources": "Files": (from above) Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 1.afdesign Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 2B.afdesign Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 3.afdesign I am not able to verify those links nor re-attach right now.

I learn (via a recent post) that the follow-up bug may arise because I am using the software in an unintended manner. If I am, then perhaps the software — in the layers menu of a linked document instance — could hide or disable layers whose visibility can/should not be toggled (because of unsupported complexity).

I don't anticipate how exactly I will now organize my file, but I know it will be easier and simpler now. Thanks, y'all. — @Pšenda, My answers¹ to your questions, led my investigation of AD Export persona. I see Export persona has "Layers" panel which has [Create Slice] button! 😲 I do not need Artboards to easily prepare for export. Thank you for probing. @Iltirtar, correct. I used too many Artboards, and used them not as they were intended. Nesting is how I can suffer the otherwise limited Layers panel, but Queries/States should reduce my reliance on Layers panel. I had overused symbols; I now use them within reason, and am considering replacing some with linked documents. My project is complex; I've just begun using linked documents, which is arguably superior to symbols. @R C-R, mastering the quirks of symbols was a challenge for me. Symbols might be the cause of my unmentioned performance issue.³ — ¹ Artboards had made exporting easier, because tool to create Slices does not snap (except to Artboards). The Artboards all have the same grid. Yes, export was easier, until I just learned to use "Layers" panel in Export persona. ² I treated them as a third organization option (compared to Group and Layer) — an option had the "feature" of always being visible in the design (unlike Group and Layer). ³ Given I have two documents open, when I update document A (which has many symbols), and I move mouse to open file names tab, then AD begins to auto-update document B (which has many instances of document A), and which makes AD unresponsive. I can not blame symbols certainly for performance, but I hope to test using linked documents instead, and evaluate whether performance (and user experience) improves.

I think nested Layers within Artboard also cause layer-toggle bug. I'm too tired to write up another report. Note, nested Artboards do not cause layer-toggle bug.

I won't use layers outside or as siblings of Artboards for now, because the bugs it caused (and how Artboard and Layers behave "by design") suggest I am "swimming upstream". @Pšenda, yes, yes. All cards are same size. I arrange Artboards in grid layout. I had three grid layouts (Large, Medium, Small), but I can overlap them all on one layout, and toggle visibility using Layer Queries/States. Ah, so nested Artboard can be used comfortably (i.e. no spontaneously moving content), and custom Artboard shapes offer negative space. (Also, nested artboards do not cause a linked-doc-layer-toggle bug.) Thanks, @thomaso. I will test: Artboard ("Face Cards") Group ("Large") Artboard ("King (Large)") Layer Layer … … … Artboard ("Number Cards") Group ("Large") Artboard ("10 (Large)") … … … … I must update a lot, but I think this will let me avoid AF-5990 follow-up bug. P.S. Note to self: Next, consider removing Groups in favor of all Layers in a card Artboard having Large/Medium/Small versions, so you have 1/3 as many artboards.

Example Use Case A. File: designs for playing cards e.g. — Number cards (2 – 10) Face cards (Jacks, Queens, Kings) Unique cards (Aces, Jokers) Back of card — and three variations of all those — "Large" (life-size) "Medium" (reduced detail) "Small" (miniature representation) B. File: instructions that illustrate how to use the cards. Embeds first file to render specific card via artboard. Optionally toggles different layers of card (to highlight a specific aspect e.g. suit, number, face). Use different variations e.g. "Large" for clarity and accuracy, "Small" for emphasis on basic elements (and to be economic with space). Hierarchy (Based on Axioms¹) ___ ("Large") Artboards (one per card) Layers (highlight different elements) Layers Groups Groups Layers Groups ___ ("Medium") Artboards (one per card) … ___ ("Small") Artboards (one per card) … For ___, I have used Layers, but I must re-evaluate hierarchy. ¹ Axioms "layers should ideally be all inside an artboard layer" — MEB's response to "Artboards and Layers" "use Groups […] to group objects/layers and organize them" — Pšenda's comment "using one kind of top-level object (Layer, or Artboard) would be better" — walt.farrell's comment use Artboards for variations of a design — Artboards and How to use them BETTER in Affinity Designer

Thank you, both. Okay, I'm ready to change my ways. But how should I organize Artboards¹… use Groups? I would not use layers, cuz AF-5990 follow-up prevents me from using design as linked document with layers I can toggle. I would organize Artboards, cuz Layers panel is short and objects are many.

I have large complex documents, where: several layers may have several artboards; several artboards may contain several layers; layers may be nested in layers (multiple levels of nesting); sometimes artboards within a larger artboard (just one level of nesting). This seems to be freely permitted by the software, but after recently discovering two bugs (AF-5990, AF-5990 follow-up), I worry I may be using the software in an unintended manner. Does my usage suggest I am badly organizing content in my documents? Am I setting myself up for trouble? P.S. I remember when symbols were new — nesting them caused bugs — but layers and artboards are not new.

@Affinity Info Bot see above report of related follow-up bug.

@Affinity Info Bot Layer visibility option is available. But, in beta build, layer visibility toggle fails in at least two scenarios: if Artboard (with Layers) is itself in a Layer (see STEP 3) if Artboard has a sibling that is a Layer (see STEP 6) — Should I report this as a separate bug? — PROBLEM Given a placed document, And that document has an Artboard with layers, And that Artboard is either within a layer or has a sibling that is a layer, Then I toggling visibility of Layers in placed document behaves both unexpectedly and inconsistently. Q&A What Application are you using? Designer Are you using the latest release version? Yes, 2.6.2 (3187). Can you reproduce it? Yes. Does it happen for a new document? If not can you upload a document that shows the problem? Yes. Yes. […] STEPS Create a Document 3 ("Doc 3") with N layers in 1 Artboard. "Place" that document into a Document 2B ("Doc 2B"). embedded or linked, does not matter Doc 2B: ✅ I toggle Layers of Doc 1 and see expected changes in content visibility. Doc 3: Add the Artboard into a new Layer. Doc 2B: ❌ I toggle layers of Doc3 and see unexpected changes in content visibility. Toggle "box" Layer, Both Layers' Content Not visible Toggle "box" layer off, both "circle" and "box" layer content disappear. Toggle any layers in any way, "box" layer content will never return. To restore "box" layer content, relink or modify Doc 3. Toggle "circle" Layer, "circle" Layer 's Content Not visible Toggle "circle" layer off, then "box" layer content disappears. (The "box" layer is still visible.) Toggle any layers in any way, "box" layer content will never return. To restore "box" layer, relink or modify Doc 3. Doc 3: Move the Artboard out of the Layer. Doc 2B: ❌ Toggle behavior is not fixed i.e. unexpected. Doc 3: Delete the empty Layer (from step 6) that had contained an Artboard. Doc 2B: ✅ Toggle behavior is fixed i.e. expected. I also minimally tested with a Group instead of a Layer — toggle behavior was fixed i.e. as expected. RESOURCES Files: (from above) Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 1.afdesign Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 2B.afdesign Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 3.afdesign Videos: ✅ Step 3: Step 3.mov ❌ Step 5: Step 5.mov SCREENSHOTS ✅ Artboard (that has Layers) NOT in a Layer Doc 3 Step 1: Doc 2B Step 3: ❌ Artboard (that has Layers) IS in a Layer Doc 3 Step 4: Doc 2B Step 5-1: Doc 2B Step 5-2: ❌ NOT Able to Resolve Issue By Just Toggling nor Hide/Show All Doc 2B Step 5-1-2 and Step 5-2-2:

Verified; fixed in beta: 2.6.2.3187. Appreciated! — UPDATE: Fixed, visible, but not functional if a new Layer is outside the Artboard of embedded document. See next reply for details.

PROBLEM Given a placed document, And that document has an Artboard, Then I can not toggle visibility of Layers in placed document. Yet this feature is demonstrated in an official Affinity Designer YouTube channel tutorial. Q&A What Application are you using? Designer Are you using the latest release version? Yes, 2.6.0. Can you reproduce it? Yes. Does it happen for a new document? If not can you upload a document that shows the problem? Yes. Yes. […] include most of the following: What is your operating system and version? macOS Sequoia 15.2 Is hardware acceleration (in Preferences > Performance) ON or OFF ? (and have you tried the other setting?) On. No. What happened for you (and what you expected to happen). Provide a recipe for creating the problem (step-by-step what you did). See "STEPS". Screenshots (very handy) or a screen capture/video. See "SCREENSHOTS". Any unusual hardware (like tablets or external monitors or drives that may affect things) or relevant other applications like font managers or display managers. laptop, zero peripherals macOS Stage Manager a VPN service, force-enabled for every user account on my OS, but disconnected Did this same thing used to work and if so have you changed anything recently? (software or hardware) I think so, but I did not use it (but planned to). Yes, recently I upgraded to v2.6.0. Now, I can not use the feature I thought I had seen. STEPS Create a Document 1 ("Doc 1") with N layers. "Place" that document into a Document 2 ("Doc 2"). embedded or linked, does not matter Doc 2: ✅ I can toggle Layers of Doc 1. Doc 1: Create an Artboard with all the layers. Doc 2: ❌ I now can not toggle Layers of Doc 1. only Page Box and Artboard are available Doc 1: Move the layers out of the Artboard. Doc 2: ❌ I still can not toggle Layers of Doc 1. only Page Box and Artboard are available Doc 1: Delete the Artboard. Doc 2: ✅ I now can again toggle Layers of Doc 1. RESOURCES Video place doc with artboard removes layer visibility option.mov Files Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 1.afdesign Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 2.afdesign SCREENSHOTS No Artboard; Can Toggle Layers Doc 1: Doc 2 : Has Artboard; Can NOT Toggle Layers Doc 1: Doc 2: Empty Artboard; Can NOT Toggle Layers Doc 1: Doc 2: RESEARCH YouTube: https://youtu.be/2wbGoyKmTrU Forums: I searched by title for "layer" AND "embed". I searched by title for "layer" AND "linked". Release Notes: I read search results for "layer", "embed", "link" in: 2.5 Release Notes (improvements and major fixes) 2.4 Release Notes (improvements and major fixes) Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 1.afdesign Test Placed Doc Layer Visibility - Doc 2.afdesign