dmstraker

Wow! Ten thousand posts! You deserve several medals, @Chris B.

Start with a lower resolution pixel image. Add live adjustment layer and adjust. Copy and paste adjustment layer to a higher resolution pixel image. Effect transfers correctly to whole image. Paint black on adjustment layer to mask out a part of the effect. Problem: this only works on an area the size of the original lower resolution image. Yes, the mask could contain painted areas from the original image. Yet when the masking has not been used in the original, it is surprising and inconvenient when it appears in the second image. When the mask is unused, it would be very helpful if this problem could be fixed. I found this when setting a Selective Colour on a lower-res image of a colour wheel and then copying it to another image. A workaround is to add a new mask to the Selective Colour. Thank you for your kind consideration.

Thanks, @MEB. See response to @Gabe. A simple bug reporting system might help all round.

Infor requested at link: Are you using the latest release version? (here's how to check) Can you reproduce it? (if you cannot then we may struggle to also, making it even harder to fix) Does it happen for a new document? If not do you have a document you can share that shows the problem? If you cannot provide a sample document then please give an accurate description of the problem for example it should include most of the following: What is your operating system and version (Windows 10, OSX Mojave, iOS 12 etc)? What happened for you (and what you expected to happen) Provide a recipe for creating the problem (step-by-step what you did). Screenshots (very handy) or a screen capture/video. Any unusual hardware (like tablets or external monitors or drives that may affect things) or relevant other applications like font managers or display managers. Did this same thing used to work and if so have you changed anything recently? (software or hardware) I can see a dilemma here. As QA, you want two things: (a) that users report bugs, and (b) that they give you information so you can easily verify the bugs. The dilemma is that the more info you request from users (for (b)), the less likely they are to report bugs (as (a)). As a user, I'm happy to donate some time to report potential bugs. And as an ex-dev/QA, I'm more willing than most to spend more time on this. But like most people, I'm averse to hassle, and will weigh this against the desire to help. So: 1. Yes. 2. Yes. 3. Yes. 4.a. Windows 10 Home latest. Version 2004. Installed 09/02/2021. OS build 19041.985. Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.2020.0 4.b.i. What happened for me was: 4.b.i.1. I made a selection using the selection brush. 4.b.i.2. I turned on the quick mask to see more clearly what I had selected. 4.b.i.3. I continued to use the selection brush. 4.b.i.4. I clicked on 'Refine'. 4.b.i.5. Under 'Output', I selected 'New Layer'. 4.b.i.6. I clicked on 'Apply'. 4.b.i.7. The result was that: 4.b.i.7.a. The selection was not copied to a new layer. 4.b.i.7.b. The pixel layer was turned off, so a checkerboard appeared. 4.b.i.7.c. The selection was lost. 4.b.ii.a. What I was expecting was that the selected area would be refined, colour decontaminated, and placed on a new layer. 4.b.ii.b. If Refine would not work I would expect a click on the Refine button to result in no effect, or an explanatory popup. 4.c. To reproduce this: 4.c.i. In a pixel layer, make a selection using the selection brush. 4.c.ii. Turn on the quick mask. 4.c.iii. Click on 'Refine'. 4.c.iv. Under 'Output', select 'New Layer'. 4.c.v. Click on 'Apply'. 4.d. Screen shots? Videos? I've already spent quite a while on the above. If you require more, please let me know and I will supply. 4.e. External hardware include old USB Bamboo tablet, but this is not used, amplifier for speakers, Focusrite Solo microphone preamp, Dynamite inline preamp, Shure XLR microphone, Epson P600 printer. 4.f. I don't know if it used to work. It just happened so I thought I'd help out by reporting it. Nothing changed recently. Phew. Not something I'll plan to do again. But it is replying literally to the request. Can I may make a suggestion? How about doing an online bug reporting system. Nothing complex, but designed to combine acquiring the most useful information while making supply of this as easy as possible. Good UX and all that. For example radio buttons, etc. for one-click data supply.

Refine with quick mask on, output to selection: no selection Refine with quick mask on, output to new layer: no new layer and current layer is turned off

I'm slightly confused. Sorry, normal state. Nevertheless hugely enjoying the exploration and learning. So blend modes use Hue, Chroma, Luma, as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blend_modes#Hue,_saturation_and_luminosity I'm guessing other HSL controls are done as Hue, Saturation and Luminosity/lightness using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSL_and_HSV#Color_conversion_formulae So is the question about confusion when one meets the other?

I'm not quite with you. Could you give a little more detail/example?

I've found that indeed this is true and there's no 'one right way' to calculate sat/chr and lum/lig/bri, though in certain situations one may be more helpful than another. It does help to understand what is being used where. Without giving away IP, it would be helpful to have a manual for all this, though I do appreciate that (a) this would be a bunch of work, and (b) there aren't too many of us technically curious folk out there. Until then I'm very grateful for the learning I glean from this fascinating forum. So Thanks.

...the Wiki HSL/HSV page quotes luma calc as: (SDTV) Y240′=0.212⋅R+0.701⋅G+0.087⋅B{\displaystyle Y'_{\text{240}}=0.212\cdot R+0.701\cdot G+0.087\cdot B} (Adobe) Y709′=0.2126⋅R+0.7152⋅G+0.0722⋅B{\displaystyle Y'_{\text{709}}=0.2126\cdot R+0.7152\cdot G+0.0722\cdot B} (HDTV) Y2020′=0.2627⋅R+0.6780⋅G+0.0593⋅B{\displaystyle Y'_{\text{2020}}=0.2627\cdot R+0.6780\cdot G+0.0593\cdot B} (UHDTV, HDR) I'm guessing APh uses 601.

Thanks, @anon2. Another piece of the puzzle falls satisfyingly into place. Eureka, and all that.

Code-wise, I think this is how it works: If you go to https://www.easyrgb.com/en/math.php and RGB->HSL, there's code to convert RGB from each pixel to HSL. Apply this to both the top (Blend) layer and the bottom (Base) layer. Then reconstitute RGB using the HSL->RGB code, using the S from the top Blend layer and H and L from the bottom Base layer. The same principle applies to the Hue and Luminosity blend modes. For the Colour blend mode, the H and S are taken from the Blend layer and just the L from the Base layer. Summary for colour blend modes: Hue = Hue(Blend) + Saturation(Base) + Luminance(Base) Saturation = Hue(Base) + Saturation(Blend) + Luminance(Base) Colour = Hue(Blend) + Saturation(Blend) + Luminance(Base) Luminosity = Hue(Base) + Saturation(Base) + Luminance(Blend) Aside: Related to the easyrgb.com code, I did a video on how Hue is calculated.

@h_d: Thanks, though I think @Komatös has answered the 'can't edit' question. @walt.farrell: Thanks, I tried it again on another computer. Working ok. Hmm. Possible analysis: The macros (Light Leaks) are pretty slow. Maybe the draft effect appeared before the panel. Ctrl-Z still worked so stepped back past previous action. Sometimes I also get panels appearing below the fold - maybe something happening here. Still doesn't explain how macro panel got cancelled. Anyway. Looks like not-a-bug.

Thanks! Execution of macros should still appear in history so undo steps back one rather than two.

When applying a macro from a set I'd acquired, it doesn't turn up in the History stream, with the result that doing an Undo steps you backwards too far. It looks like this happens to macros which have protected (ie. you can't edit them to see how they work). Just out of curiosity, I don't know how macros are protected this way and would be grateful to learn this tweak.

I've been chasing through the webiverse trying to find the algorithms or anything vaguely technical about fill and the special/magical 8 blend modes. Not found the end of the rainbow yet. No gold. Not even rainbow, if truth be told.

Good effort, Krishna. It kinda shows how tricky the subject is, as Smee indicates. When I try to get my head around it, I end up in need of a bit of exorcism. This has been discussed a lot in other posts, including recently: and further back here (and more): One for the Santa list, perchance.

Apologies for the confusion. If it will help, more detail is below that hopefully answers your questions and explains my motivations. 1. Monochrome conversion In a colour image, Red, Green and Blue have different values in each pixel. When Red, Green and Blue values in a pixel are equal, the result is white, grey or black (in other words, monochrome). The puzzle in converting to monochrome is how to shift the Red, Green and Blue in each pixel so they are equal. Examples of this include: Take the average. So if R=100%, G=0 and B=0 (in other words bright, saturated red), the monochrome pixel value is R=33%, G=33%, B=33% Go half-way between the maximum and the minimum. So if R=100%, G=0% and B=0%, the maximum is 100% and the minimum is 0% the monochrome pixel value is R=50%, G=50%, B=50% (which will make the pixel a mid-grey, which is brighter than the first method). Use the gap between the maximum and the minimum. So if R=100%, G=0% and B=0%, the maximum is 100% and the minimum is 0% the monochrome pixel value is R=100%, G=100%, B=100% (which will make the pixel even brighter - in fact it will be white). So the question is 'What method will you use to convert the colour image into monochrome (ie black and white)?' A further problem is that when we look at different colours, we perceive them to be of different brightness. Just taking the primary and secondary colours (red, yellow, green, cyan, blue ad magenta), Yellow is seen as bright, while Blue is seen as dark, with the other colours in between. If you use any of the calculations above to create monochrome, a yellow and a blue pixel will both have the same brightness. This can make an image look poor (a good example is a bunch of different coloured flowers which all come out in similar shades of grey). So someone found that when converting to monochrome, it worked well to take different amounts of Red, Green and Blue. Because of the eye's sensitivity to different colours, within each pixel in the coloured image, you take about 30% of the Red, 59% of the Green and 11% of the Blue and then create the monochrome pixel by setting Red, Green and Blue all to the same value from this calculation. As a formula, this is R*0.30+G*0.59+B*0.11. The result is a monochrome image that looks more realistic. So if R=100%, G=0% and B=0%, the 30/59/11% calculation is 0.3*100%+0.59*0%+0.11*0% = 30%. So pure red appears as a darkish grey. if R=0%, G=100% and B=0%, the 30/59/11% calculation is 0.3*100%+0.59*100%+0.11*0% = 59%. So pure green appears as a lighter grey. In this way, different colours, even when they have the same pixel value are converted to appear as different shades of grey. 2. The Vibrance question A way in Affinity Photo to create a monochrome image is to turn down the saturation. A question is whether this takes account of the 30/59/11% tweak above. When you turn down the Saturation in the HSL adjustment, it uses a formula that means a similarly saturated Yellow and Blue will appear as the same shade of grey. In some situations this is just fine, but if you want 30/59/11% conversion, so the human eye makes more natural sense of the colours, you need a different method. The Vibrance adjustment also has a Saturation control, but turning this down has a different effect to the Saturation control in HSL. I had thought the result was just from using the 30/59/11% calculation, but it seems to be slightly different. A way to get a perfect 30/59/11% calculation is to use Levels and simply change the RGB drop-down control to Grey. 3. My motivation I am both a curious old techie and the author of the InAffinity YouTube channel where I explore and explain Affinity Photo. In this, I talk about such things as the 30/59/11% thing and the difference between HSL and Vibrance Saturation controls. Hence my original question. This helps me learn as well as giving the buzz of helping others. And hopefully also helping Serif, a great British company, to sell more product. With nearly 10,000 subscribers and lots of nice comments, I'm guessing I'm nudging the needle a little. Slightly perplexingly, Patrick seems to think I am trying to get hold of company secrets and distracting the developers from their important work. Some people would be insulted by this rebuke, but I am not. I was both a developer and then a QA engineer and, if I'm honest, was a pretty prickly geek who sometimes got irritated by perceived challenges. But then I studied psychology, looked in the mirror and hope I'm a bit cooler now. In particular I don't assume I know the thoughts and intent of others. In fact I've found that thinking kindly about them is better for me as well as for my relationships. So all's good.

Make black and white with 30% red, 59% green, 11% blue. Reflects perception of colour brightness. We see blue as darkest, then red then green.

Elementary. Of course. gr=golden ratio. Take a bow, NMF.

No suggestion, no pressure, not asking for devs to take their noses off the grindwheel. Just trying to understand. I'm an old techie and endlessly curious.

Yup. I keep bumping into them. For example I use gn for green as gr means something (grads?). re and bl for red and blue are ok.

Draw a shape. Take artistic text tool. Approach edge of shape. Cursor changes. Click and type. Shape disappears as it is now the locus guide. Can be confusing in the same way as above. Not a problem though it got me going first time it happened.

Disclaimer 1: The video was done a while ago. I don't have previous versions of APh so tricky to check. Disclaimer 2: I'm more of a photo guy so make little use of text (so claim limited expertise here). Disclaimer 3: My brain hurts! (any brain surgeons out there?) Otherwise I get both the original question and the explanation. It is a bit of a confuser if you don't know what's happening. Like what happens with the Artistic Text tool at shape boundaries (nice new feature, btw).

Saturation in the Vibrance adjustment layer isn't the same as HSL saturation, but it also doesn't seem to be basic 30/59/11 perceptual values either. Turning it right down and doing a Difference with a PT layer with an assortment of formulae I can't quite pin its calculation down. Can anyone tell me how this is calculated, especially in slider fully left (desaturation)? Thanks!

Nicely done, @smadell, and thanks for the InAffinity reference. For a future version if you like, I keep a parallel web-based index (and resources) here: http://changingminds.org/disciplines/photography/affinity_photo/affinity_photo.htm